Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: John Revenent on 16 Mar 2011, 07:41
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Over the past few days I-RED has been running operations to counter a wardec and while running in lowsec our blues (Wolfsbrigade, and COLD-Wing.) Openly engaged us, slinging comments about they dont know who we are, and how we were pirates for defending ourselves from our own blues among other outrageous comments. :bash:
While the Gallente Militia has been respectful in almost every aspect and even assisted us against Pirate's, and hostile militia parties in the area, and so far have shown any will to impede our operations.
From a RP aspect this has me in a tough but exciting spot, since now even more Caldari militia are actively engaging us (and losing expensive ships to us) and more Gallente sending aid, I have no doubt this would be to help expand the ever growing gap in I-RED/Protectorate relations. This has already caused I-RED to actively look at pirate elements under the State banner, forcing our hand against our own state forces by destroying hostile ships, and of course this will eventually do more harm then anything else..
I can see some interesting RP aspects to the situation. Even if very little good can come of it.
Disclaimer, I am in no way QQing about fighting the Caldari militia or being attacked by our own blues (Has happened many times before and was delt with.) as the possibilities for RP in this area has expanded. Just wanting to see the response of such a escalation on the front and what impact you would think it could have.
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FFS. I'll see if I can fix this.
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I don't think he wants it fixed.
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IC, extremely interesting indeed, the possibilities here.
OOC, the State militia has always had issues with internal civil conflicts, and overall not that cohesive. The reason SOTF left was because WT fleets had stopped appearing on the front, and they got bored. I'm not sure why the Caldari were always second-best up against the Gallente, but it may due to the size of them (two-thirds larger than the Gallente) but also there may be a greater volume of carebears, as State space (by virtue of being almost all highsec before BR) is/was known for being happycarebearland.
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Its days like this I'm glad I made Senn into a criminal. He was originally gonna be an active State patriot. But if that were the case and he heard the Caldari were fighting one another and receiving aid from the Federation, he'd probably have gone straight from patriot to terrorist.
Interesting developments though. Tough to RP from. On the one hand IRED is already dealing with pirates in Federation space, on the other, they might decide its more important to deal with the state of affairs on the home front. Or try to fight a two-front war. All good choices for development imo. :D
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OOC, the State militia has always had issues with internal civil conflicts, and overall not that cohesive.
QFT which I always found very unfortunate and frustrating.
I'm not sure why the Caldari were always second-best up against the Gallente, but it may due to the size of them (two-thirds larger than the Gallente) but also there may be a greater volume of carebears
Pretty much is. A large majority of CalMil is just there to run missions and gain LP for ISK making. Or at least thats how it was when I was in the militia.
As to the OP that situation does give rise to some opportunities for some good RP.
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*Deleted*
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Stop mixing OOC with IC Vik.
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IC, since your own countrymen already spit on you and you already fight to keep peace in Federation space... Why not say fuck the State and go pro Fed? ...Or go Gurista, after all Gariushi had an interesting and colourful past before his untimely demise and I'm sure his former associates still have resources invested in Ishukone.
OOC, turning jacket to wear the eagle instead of the C would be a rather "what a twist!" moment. Nevertheless, interesting times indeed.
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It's widely known in the State militia that you guys have cooperated, helped, and worked with GalMil. We don't need those kind of "friends", in my personal opinion.
To be quite honest, due to your consistent friendliness towards the Gals, neither I nor my character see you as loyal to the State or even Ishukone, but just as an opportunistic alliance displaying a logo that misleads people as to your purpose. However, that's my viewpoint - I'm not saying your RP is wrong, just what it looks like to me.
You do not seem to understand our organization stands for, we have cooperated with the Gallente Militia only on occasions that did not involve us in the Factional War, we are very loyal to the Caldari State (Not Heth's State) and even more Ishukone. Us being friendly to them allows us to conduct trade, and keeps us in Intaki without another MDP war raining down on our heads. Just because we are unbiased, and conduct trade with all four empires loyalists doesn't means otherwise.
(Also how we supposed to be friendly with the Protectorate when they openly engage us under the falsehood of being our allies..)
IC, since your own countrymen already spit on you and you already fight to keep peace in Federation space... Why not say fuck the State and go pro Fed? ...Or go Gurista, after all Gariushi had an interesting and colourful past before his untimely demise and I'm sure his former associates still have resources invested in Ishukone.
OOC, turning jacket to wear the eagle instead of the C would be a rather "what a twist!" moment. Nevertheless, interesting times indeed.
I agree it would be interesting but in the end I-RED is and will always be loyal to the Caldari people and Ishukone, I do not think I would make a good pirate.
FFS. I'll see if I can fix this.
I do not mind the help, but it would seem they are happier smacking and getting smashed then anything else.. and the willingness to engage us while under blue because they didn't know who we were is something we do not look in for a ally.
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Stop mixing OOC with IC Vik.
I don't really know that he is.
ICly Ember had about the same viewpoint towards I-RED for pretty much the same reasons. She probably wouldnt have said anything but she viewed his friendliness with the Gallente as a betrayal of sorts to the State. She knows that its part of what Ishukone does to foster trade and all that, but she doesnt like it.
OOCly I thought you were doing a pretty good job of being a liberal aligned corp. The road to peace is often paved with lots of money and supporting trade between the nations is a way to help with that.
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John's post reads just as IC/OCC as Vik's.
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OOC:
I've had 'fights' with some squids back when I was Yarr, they either blobbed or fled liek scaerded children.
IC:
Dossie doesn't like the State because they're scum. Mei will just shoot whatever's in front of her, so FW is great.
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So this is really just an issue of blue-on-blue. Outside of CAIN, I am not aware of any corps in stpro who care about those outside of the stpro who claim to be loyal to the state.
LDIS goes out for a roam in the war zone and we are pretty much targets for both sides. The only people who will recongize who we are will be other rpers. If they are under a fc who doesn't recongize the corporation/other standings then blues are going to end up shooting at us.
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So this is really just an issue of blue-on-blue. Outside of CAIN, I am not aware of any corps in stpro who care about those outside of the stpro who claim to be loyal to the state.
LDIS goes out for a roam in the war zone and we are pretty much targets for both sides. The only people who will recongize who we are will be other rpers. If they are under a fc who doesn't recongize the corporation/other standings then blues are going to end up shooting at us.
Same can be said about most of the Gallente Militia yet when it came down to the MDP wars last year RP was more active in this area of the conflict, its not if they RP or not but what kind of impact it will have on the area in the RP realm. Most of the people that we engaged in the MDP were not Role-Players but retracted all hostilities onto I-RED not one day after the Intaki Assembly spoke out about Ishukone and their reasoning to be there.
Even if Wolfsbrigade do not RP, what they do has an effect on how the Caldari State can respond being one of the largest players in the Protectorate. In the end with what I have seen in the FW front it has the possibility to build upon story.
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This is one of the reasons I joined the Amarr Militia over the State. The Caldari Militia was full of carebears and I was told pvp was non-existant and if the internal conflict is a bad as you say then all this is quite expected. I find it no surprise that several Caldari FW corps can't beat I-RED battle-hardened 0.0 fleet's and FC's.
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if the internal conflict is a bad as you say then all this is quite expected.
What makes I-RED (or LDIS) internal to the Caldari Militia? Nothing, this isn't a case of a Caldari Militia corp shooting a Caldari militia corp.
If Amarr militia shoots at CVA, is it an internal conflict? No...
I find it no surprise that several Caldari FW corps can't beat I-RED battle-hardened 0.0 fleet's and FC's.
Why should anyone be surprised that those participating in what CCP considers a stepping stone to 0.0 would lose to those with lots of experience in 0.0?
Same can be said about most of the Gallente Militia yet when it came down to the MDP wars last year RP was more active in this area of the conflict, its not if they RP or not but what kind of impact it will have on the area in the RP realm. Most of the people that we engaged in the MDP were not Role-Players but retracted all hostilities onto I-RED not one day after the Intaki Assembly spoke out about Ishukone and their reasoning to be there.
Even if Wolfsbrigade do not RP, what they do has an effect on how the Caldari State can respond being one of the largest players in the Protectorate. In the end with what I have seen in the FW front it has the possibility to build upon story.
I agree with you entirely.
I think the FDU is a unique creature do to the independent efforts of Jules & Zagamesh. STRIX built an internal alliance within the FDU with clear goals with RP-flavor. The corporations were introduced to RPing the conflict.
In my opinion, this has never happened in the Caldari militia. I don't think there has been a significant enough presence on the part of Caldari RP to lead and put RP spin on the Caldari side of the conflict.
Since Wolfsbrigade is "undeclared" when it comes to corporate allegiances they might be supportive of any of the Big 8 (the ones who pay well) and the story may be more about a competing mega trying to weaken Ishukone's successes.
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So this is really just an issue of blue-on-blue. Outside of CAIN, I am not aware of any corps in stpro who care about those outside of the stpro who claim to be loyal to the state.
LDIS goes out for a roam in the war zone and we are pretty much targets for both sides. The only people who will recongize who we are will be other rpers. If they are under a fc who doesn't recongize the corporation/other standings then blues are going to end up shooting at us.
And this makes a lot of sense. Which is why our response was:
IC: It's an outrage! Die!
OOC: It's actually cool for everyone to have more people to pew.
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There's something satisfying about the symmetry of CalMil having friction with Ishukone while GalMil has friction with Intaki :9.
Very much reflects those real life scenarios when the people trying to find a peaceful alternative are made out to be "traitors and collaborators!"
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There's something satisfying about the symmetry of CalMil having friction with Ishukone while GalMil has friction with Intaki :9.
Very much reflects those real life scenarios when the people trying to find a peaceful alternative are made out to be "traitors and collaborators!"
^This.
It's the Human condition. Unfortunately, radical thinking isn't always a popular choice, neither is it liked by the powers that be.
As a race, we're not wise enough yet to see the sense in these ideas and that translates to both IC and OOC. There are always people that strive to keep war going because they'll benefit from it. That and New Eden would be boring if it was all hugs & kisses followed by hours of staring at rocks.
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There's something satisfying about the symmetry of CalMil having friction with Ishukone while GalMil has friction with Intaki :9.
Very much reflects those real life scenarios when the people trying to find a peaceful alternative are made out to be "traitors and collaborators!"
So... if both the Assembly and Ishukone had enough of the "traitor" accusations and they already have an established working relationship together... hmm...
Ishukone - the Intaki Megacorp...
oops, did I say that out loud? ;)
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This is why I think Gallente/Caldari RP thrashes Amarr/Minmatar in this aspect...we've got so many different sides with different objectives...the RP that is spawned from this would/be crazy...
In terms of war, this is expected. If LDIS go roaming around in the warzone, well, I guess you would be "civilians" in a designated fighting area, and thus anything is possible. In terms of the State, they often (in secret, and never publically AFAIK) fight against each other, so STPRO (perhaps the Heth dogs) destroying Ishukone (the anti-Heth...dogs) seems to fit within the scope of Caldari RP, while the overall blue-on-blue or "collateral damage" thing fits within the scope of war RP overall.
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There's something satisfying about the symmetry of CalMil having friction with Ishukone while GalMil has friction with Intaki :9.
Very much reflects those real life scenarios when the people trying to find a peaceful alternative are made out to be "traitors and collaborators!"
So... if both the Assembly and Ishukone had enough of the "traitor" accusations and they already have an established working relationship together... hmm...
Ishukone - the Intaki Megacorp...
oops, did I say that out loud? ;)
Would be interesting if the next occupation resulted in an Ishukone factory/lab station in Intaki.
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Game mechanic results from FW? THAT'S MADNESS!
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This is why I think Gallente/Caldari RP thrashes Amarr/Minmatar in this aspect...we've got so many different sides with different objectives...the RP that is spawned from this would/be crazy...
Much more grey zones to explore in Caldari/Gallente RP, I am not a fan of Black and White RP.
In terms of war, this is expected. If LDIS go roaming around in the warzone, well, I guess you would be "civilians" in a designated fighting area, and thus anything is possible. In terms of the State, they often (in secret, and never publically AFAIK) fight against each other, so STPRO (perhaps the Heth dogs) destroying Ishukone (the anti-Heth...dogs) seems to fit within the scope of Caldari RP, while the overall blue-on-blue or "collateral damage" thing fits within the scope of war RP overall.
Indeed, I like the aspects this is creating. Though I agree a public statement would cause issues with other State loyalists, but already I have had some interesting conversations with groups like Veto.
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This is why I think Gallente/Caldari RP thrashes Amarr/Minmatar in this aspect...we've got so many different sides with different objectives...the RP that is spawned from this would/be crazy...
Much more grey zones to explore in Caldari/Gallente RP, I am not a fan of Black and White RP.
I think there is room for grey areas in Amarr/Minmatar RP, but it seems like everyone defaults to the slaver/anti slaver arguments. Though that is a separate discussion entirely.
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I think there is room for grey areas in Amarr/Minmatar RP, but it seems like everyone defaults to the slaver/anti slaver arguments. Though that is a separate discussion entirely.
I agree, I-RED tries to exploit grey area's in Matari/Amarr RP. Its why we conduct trade/deals/operations with both Amarr and Matari organizations. Though its alot more challenging.
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Depending on people taking stances different from the slaver/freedom fighter combo, both Matari and Amarr RP does have about the same potential as any Caldari or Gallente RP. For example, during peace, the Empire does practice divide and conquer style management, with a good deal of small brush wars between Holders (as long as they don't really flame out of control) and lots of court intrigue.
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This is why I think Gallente/Caldari RP thrashes Amarr/Minmatar in this aspect...we've got so many different sides with different objectives...the RP that is spawned from this would/be crazy...
In terms of war, this is expected. If LDIS go roaming around in the warzone, well, I guess you would be "civilians" in a designated fighting area, and thus anything is possible. In terms of the State, they often (in secret, and never publically AFAIK) fight against each other, so STPRO (perhaps the Heth dogs) destroying Ishukone (the anti-Heth...dogs) seems to fit within the scope of Caldari RP, while the overall blue-on-blue or "collateral damage" thing fits within the scope of war RP overall.
Blanket statements ftw Seriphyn, they seem to become pretty much your signature on these forums - especially concerning things regarding amarr RP.
Your oversimplification of the a/m conflict is incorrect insofar as there are plenty internal conflicts in both the amarr bloc and on the minmatar side of things.
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Ignorance of something does not mean it does not exist; but the gradients in the Amarr/Minmatari conflict are simply less well known to those of us who simply do not spend the time there. We might occasionally look at an IGS post, where the conflict does appear rather simplistic.
On the flip-side, we, on the Caldari/Gallente fronts, sometimes struggle to find cause and then explain that cause in a 15 sec sound bit. This is important for getting those relatively uninterested in RP involved in RP.
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Ignorance of something does not mean it does not exist; but the gradients in the Amarr/Minmatari conflict are simply less well known to those of us who simply do not spend the time there. We might occasionally look at an IGS post, where the conflict does appear rather simplistic.
On the flip-side, we, on the Caldari/Gallente fronts, sometimes struggle to find cause and then explain that cause in a 15 sec sound bit. This is important for getting those relatively uninterested in RP involved in RP.
This, really. Amarr and Minnie fac war has at least the same level degree of gradation, internal dispute, etc, if not more. I can think of several instances of corps within the Amarr bloc setting each other red, yadda yadda. The perception that it is more black and white is based on what happens publicly: Almost every public dispute devolves quickly into “death to the slavers” and “for the glory of god and the empire!” The fact that there are such central issues to the war makes it easier for each side to present a unified front (publicly) and give that black and white impression. The gal/cal war doesn’t have the same obvious central issues, etc, so it’s harder to get everyone in line publicly.
Internally, however, amarr and Minnie fac war is no less complex than gal/cal. They simply don’t drag the internal conflict into the public realm as frequently, as it becomes an invitation for the other side to mock them for their divisiveness. Seriously, any time the Minmatar have an issue with each other, the Amarr show up to call them savages. And when the Amarr have problems, the Minnies show up and say “oh, and you call us savages, eh?” End result: Internal disputes aren’t made public in favor of presenting the unified, united front.
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Yeah, that's what I mean. On IGS, the only thing we, as outsiders, see of Amarr/Minmatar is the whole "Amarr Victor!" and "We come for our people". On the Gal/Cal front, we've got Intakis allying with Ishukone, Fed Doves bashing Fed Hawks, Fed Hawks bashing Fed Doves, secessionists bleating, political discourse etc.
While within the RP I'm sure there's internal disagreements, as far as fictionally, as an outsider, we haven't seen something as underhanded and sneaky as Blind Auction, or The Ever-Turning Wheels for the Amarr.
The Gallente and Caldari are rattling each other's sabres while having their hands in each other's pockets. for the Amarr and Minmatar, we've got a guy waving a dagger at a larger guy who has a knife to the throat of the smaller guy's children.
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[mod]Please feel free to continue discussions of Amarr/Minmatar vs Caldari/Gallente RP shades in another thread, of course doing so within the guidelines and not turning it into "ur rp is bad".[/mod]
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IC, extremely interesting indeed, the possibilities here.
OOC, the State militia has always had issues with internal civil conflicts, and overall not that cohesive. The reason SOTF left was because WT fleets had stopped appearing on the front, and they got bored. I'm not sure why the Caldari were always second-best up against the Gallente, but it may due to the size of them (two-thirds larger than the Gallente) but also there may be a greater volume of carebears, as State space (by virtue of being almost all highsec before BR) is/was known for being happycarebearland.
Also OOC:
1. Missiles are the easy button for missions.
2. State Pro missions are the quickest path to valuable navy ships
3. Proximity to Jita
The above are the main reasons for the vast outnumbering. A much, much smaller percentage participate in fleets than in the Gallente militia. Also, there was a supposed mass exodus after the Caldari won the entire warzone, leaving a vacuum that took a long time to fill.
I learned all this after the fact as I went Caldari with my first combat character with the intent on joining FW asap.
IC: I am not authorized to speak on the reasons Wolfsbrigade members would shoot anything not purple on their overhead and the advantages/disadvantages to that ROI.
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Why are people giving IC positions on Backstage?
If someone wants your IC opinion they will post on IGS or ask you in-game in some fashion.
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Why are people giving IC positions on Backstage?
If someone wants your IC opinion they will post on IGS or ask you in-game in some fashion.
Because my corp doesn't allow me to publicly state my opinions on matters of warfare. Stating what I would have to answer/rebut/clear up some of the things said here (IC or OOC) would have been a violation of the corporation's policy.
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Why are people giving IC positions on Backstage?
If someone wants your IC opinion they will post on IGS or ask you in-game in some fashion.
Because my corp doesn't allow me to publicly state my opinions on matters of warfare. Stating what I would have to answer/rebut/clear up some of the things said here (IC or OOC) would have been a violation of the corporation's policy.
It was not just directed at you Dirk; you followed the lead of others.
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Now it is interesting.
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I am so glad I wandered into this mess. 8)
Man, I need a new sig....
(edit: New sig! Not bad for a 10min job...)
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Yeah, here's where it gets fun.
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The reason I find it so fun is that it hardly goes against what we know of the Caldari anyway (alleged Ishukone/FIO cooperation by the Provists, STPRO are agents of Heth etc?)
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Wait, what happened?
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http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1489825 (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1489825)
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STPRO are agents of Heth
That is conjecture on the part of players. I fully expect the "pro-Heth" finger to be leveled in my direction.
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http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1489825 (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1489825)
I find it funny to see sockpuppets accusing other people of being sockpuppets. :P
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Also, there's a whole thread on that topic. Why didn't you post there, if you felt strongly?
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[mod]Please be careful when making specific accusations, like accusing characters of being alts just for inflating the appearance of popular support for the main's position.[/mod]
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Also, there's a whole thread on that topic. Why didn't you post there, if you felt strongly?
Have 100% confirmation that both characters calling one another out for being alts *are* alts, and I honestly just found it amusing.
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While the Gallente Militia has been respectful in almost every aspect and even assisted us against Pirate's, and hostile militia parties in the area, and so far have shown any will to impede our operations.
If I was in your arena of operations and saw you siding with the enemy I would open fire too. :yar:
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And then IC and OOC bled through again, and no one was surprised.
The end.
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If I was in your arena of operations and saw you siding with the enemy I would open fire too. :yar:
The complement to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend": The friend of my enemy is my enemy.
This kinda seems like what happened. IRED has been trying to be friendly with both sides of a rather bitter conflict. The side that they were 'originally' allied with (caldari) objected to them being so friendly with the gallente (Particularly qcats, Ew). Combine with a few KMs "proving" that IRED is shooting STPRO pilots (not that KMs mean anything since they don't say who fired first or who was involved but failed to get a kill, and seriously, blue fire happens, get over it) and you've got everything you need to paint IRED as an enemy of the State. If I had to guess, the KMs are just there because someone went scrounging for 'proof' to help back up the wardeck, the actual motivation for which isn't the random kills at all, but oh well.
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regardless of what can be said, i'm quite happy it has stirred light RPing from both sides even from people that usually would not consider it.
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If I was in your arena of operations and saw you siding with the enemy I would open fire too. :yar:
The complement to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend": The friend of my enemy is my enemy.
This kinda seems like what happened. IRED has been trying to be friendly with both sides of a rather bitter conflict. The side that they were 'originally' allied with (caldari) objected to them being so friendly with the gallente (Particularly qcats, Ew). Combine with a few KMs "proving" that IRED is shooting STPRO pilots (not that KMs mean anything since they don't say who fired first or who was involved but failed to get a kill, and seriously, blue fire happens, get over it) and you've got everything you need to paint IRED as an enemy of the State. If I had to guess, the KMs are just there because someone went scrounging for 'proof' to help back up the wardeck, the actual motivation for which isn't the random kills at all, but oh well.
We have encountered this problem before on all fronts, Ishukone-Raata blued Ushra'Khan and CVA to further diplomatic goals even after a bloody 2 week war, though that being said we have always tried to mirror Ishukone diplomacy to the best of our ability. Working with multiple sides does give an advantage of isk income and added security, if we are able to create stability in the relationship. We have always had blues in the Amarr, Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar Militia's even during the MDP war in Intaki, our agreements with such groups ALWAYS include a strong stance toward neutrality on all war fronts. Meaning we do not give intel, we try not to venture into military complex's, and even now we are blue with QCATS we have yet to fleet with them.
We were engaged first by Wolfsbrigade, and I suspect this war to continue for several months at this rate.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Also, there's a whole thread on that topic. Why didn't you post there, if you felt strongly?
Have 100% confirmation that both characters calling one another out for being alts *are* alts, and I honestly just found it amusing.
That certainly would be ironically hilarious. You also seem to be implying that one or other of these alts belong to me. Why don't you just say it, then? Why didn't you take a position on the other thread. There's no reason to make passive-aggressive comments on an OOC thread that has nothing to do with alts. I try to like you OOC, but you make it hard sometimes.
You're entitled to your role-play, I even liked to play along with you, but you always come back here and complain OOC about IC stuff. The result inevitably is that:
And then IC and OOC bled through again, and no one was surprised.
The end.
You're right. And I don't know why it has to be that way.
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Well every time it happens I give the same explanation and no one ever listens.
It doesn't have to be that way, you'd just have to change human behavioral patterns to stop it.
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That certainly would be ironically hilarious. You also seem to be implying that one or other of these alts belong to me. Why don't you just say it, then? Why didn't you take a position on the other thread. There's no reason to make passive-aggressive comments on an OOC thread that has nothing to do with alts. I try to like you OOC, but you make it hard sometimes.
I never intended to imply that you were said alt, and I apologise. Didn't mean to derail the thread.
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I never intended to imply that you were said alt, and I apologise. Didn't mean to derail the thread.
Oh, my bad then. I apologise for overreacting.
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I held my tongue when somebody said that it's not surprising that a 0.0 alliance would stomp a FW corp because I <3 John. However, W-BR have the numbers, the ISK and FIRST GENERAL is a better FC than even Ladel. I've seen him stomp the crap out of big name 0.0 alliance blobs looking to pick on FWers.
0.0 FCs just don't get the continuous(literally all day long) mid-sized gangs that WB-R get to field. Also FG is the leader of CalMil - when he speaks the militia listen and that's a shit load of thrasher pilots to draw on.
I think that I-RED will hold their own, but it isn't going to be a cake walk by any means.
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0.0 FCs just don't get the continuous(literally all day long) mid-sized gangs that WB-R get to field. Also FG is the leader of CalMil - when he speaks the militia listen and that's a shit load of thrasher pilots to draw on.
Good to hear there is such a player that can lead the squids, among frogs you could say Julius Foederatus is his equivalent.
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Such leaders have often risen among the militias; look at Predator Elite or Garst Tyrel among the Amarr.
Such folks who actually have some talent at FCing on a large scale (and no real RP interest) seem to inevitably drift off to null-sec given some time....which is fine, since that's what FW is supposed to be for EVE, the training ground for fighters.
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I think I have missed a step in the in-character rationale of faction warfare. As I understand it, the FW militias are 'allowed' (by Concord) para-military groups acting as a political pressure valve to allow conflict without full-blown war between the factions.
Recent references on IGS to ties between STPRO and CN bring this understanding into question.
If you are in an FW corp, you are logically the enemy of the opposing factions - makes sense to me. But if the corporations of NPC factions who are FW opponents (e.g. Gallente & Caldari) can own stations (and by extension conduct business) in each other's sovereign territory, why should a 'loyalist" player corp/alliance be considered disloyal for following the same approach?
The mechanics of it indicate to me that a player corp operating under the auspices of an NPC faction should not be expected to be the "enemy" of that faction's FW opponents. Is there an IC reason for or against this? I'd love to know what you think.
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I held my tongue when somebody said that it's not surprising that a 0.0 alliance would stomp a FW corp because I <3 John. However, W-BR have the numbers, the ISK and FIRST GENERAL is a better FC than even Ladel. I've seen him stomp the crap out of big name 0.0 alliance blobs looking to pick on FWers.
0.0 FCs just don't get the continuous(literally all day long) mid-sized gangs that WB-R get to field. Also FG is the leader of CalMil - when he speaks the militia listen and that's a shit load of thrasher pilots to draw on.
I think that I-RED will hold their own, but it isn't going to be a cake walk by any means.
It isn't just First General who can competently FC in W-BR. There were 3-4 decent part time small gang FC's who came over from IBS a few months ago, and they have several FC's who joined from 8th Order.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the attempt by W-BR members made to retcon a roleplaying angle to an in-game conflict. I thought it was quite impressive.
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Good conflict so far (Minus the OMG OMG WE killed 5 Ravens).
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As an aside, on the more general topic of IC/OOC bleedthrough and :dramaz: etc., I will bet and guarantee to you that the guys from Wolfsbridge, will be the most laidback about it, and not see a problem at all.
The non-RPers who sometimes dabble in lite RP always end up being the ones that are like "Oh hey man, yeah cool, it's just RP"
We suck :P
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This may belong in the Fed-RP tread, but one thing that makes me sad is the constant state of players defecting from the Fed to help the 'enemy' and such.
Several 8th order have joined the other side and are now fighting against their former comrades, and a SOTF carrier war downed while assisting the very same fomer enemy faction.
All the more glory to them to do what they think is fun, but the constant rate of people leaving the Fed to shoot the Fed up is getting absurd, it's like an over-used, horrible meme at this point.
I'm surprized no-one have pointed this out IC on the igs yet, but perhaps that's just how it goes. It's so standard now none care anymore.
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There are a whole host of problems that plague FW as a whole, and they honestly started back when FW started.
Back to what seems to have become the topic in here, though... what was that about sockpuppets calling others sockpuppets in that thread declaring mutual war? I hope I haven't been demoted to sockpuppet for challenging them to "prove it or back off" with that little CN dispatch they claimed.
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No no, we dropped that tangent already. Let's keep going with the FW stuff. :)
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No no, we dropped that tangent already. Let's keep going with the FW stuff. :)
Confusion >.<
Who are you replying to Cas?
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No no, we dropped that tangent already. Let's keep going with the FW stuff. :)
Confusion >.<
Who are you replying to Cas?
Clearly, me. Suffering from latecomers' confusion, sorry.
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Sorry, should have specified. Yes, I'd think moving away from the sock puppet stuff would be good. :)
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Well, I'll just go my own direction and see how it goes. :)
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Lots of new faces in the "mutual war" thread. I like watching the Ishukonites & SuVee-like-folks shoot at each other. ;)
Yes, I am calling them SuVee-like (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/State_of_the_Caldari_State%2C_110.06.11#Practicals). I have not seen them claim association with KK, Wirykomi, or Lai Dai* and they seem to fit the linked description.
*If they claim Lai Dai, I am going to have a whole host of issues.
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I don't think they are going all-in with the rp. Some having fun with it, some slightly mocking I-RED with it.
But if you want to attach a political faction to it, it would have to be the Practicals. There's an excellent post in the official forum thread about how such incidents which led to this war occurred. That area of the warzone is basically prison rules with all the strong pirate corps running around. W-BR, 4H, et al are all being realists when they know they have to be the biggest, toughest dogs in the yard if The State is to ever gain full control over the disputed systems. The Patriots would want them to concentrate on only Gallente targets, and the Liberals will opt for blue ops with the Gallente to fight the pirates (an act much more reviled in the general militia than shooting neutrals).
But in my opinion, most State Pro pilots likely fall under the dissociated tag. The militia is perfectly fine employing those willing to do their dirty work, so they have no large corporation to answer to when they do something sinister.
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Chowda: thanks for that. A very enlightened objective assessment, imho.
I am enjoying the situation and am excited to see how things go.
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The mutual war thread has taken an interesting turn.
SotF stated they sometimes fly alongside WBR outside the warzone. All kinds of militia drama.
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I saw that on their KB yesterday. Seems they go carrier hunting.
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I don't think even the Liberals would go for blue ops with the Gallente while at war with them. 'Liberal' for the Caldari doesn't mean they share principles with say American Liberals. All being Liberal means, is that they prefer in free-ish trade (not true free trade).
Yes, a key principle of free trade is that both sides benefit from it - but the liberals don't buy into because they want all sides to benefit. They support free trade because it's the best way for them to prosper. That the Gallente benefit is an unfortunate side effect.
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The Practicals might. If there was enough of a profit to be made. Then again they would most likely want deniability which a KB cant provide so maybe not.
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One thing to keep in mind is that the game mechanics behind FW makes the involved corporations essentially glorified privateers and mercenaries. Registering with the militia is the equivalent of a Letter of Marque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque), permitting them to freely engage and destroy capsuleer vessels bearing the enemy flag without the usual CONCORD interference. The Empires maintain their loyalty largely by highly lucrative contractual work against non-capsuleer targets, i.e. FW mission-running.
As with their historical forebears, there is a very thin line between privateers and pirates. Many members of the FW militias engage in opportune piracy when the chance presents itself.
There is a wide range of behavior, of course. Some FW militia corps style themselves as military units and professional private contractors. Some also stick to anti-pirate or NRDS policies. Some FW corps behave as loyalists to the faction they fight for, others merely pay lip service to their side, and others still are unabashed about being mercenaries in it for the isk and kills.
When seen from this angle, very few of the FW antics are immersion-breaking. It's not unexpected that a privateer would cloak their actions with the veneer of government-sanctioned legitimacy, even if their actual behavior is that of a well-paid pirate. From this perspective, it's also not unusual for mercenaries working for opposing sides to collaborate without the consent/knowledge of their respective employers.
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The Practicals might. If there was enough of a profit to be made. Then again they would most likely want deniability which a KB cant provide so maybe not.
Post. This one. Yours. Made my night.
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Well I-RED has yet to do a joint fleet with the Gallente against Caldari Militia (KOS Militia corps like W-BR/THE4), and I doubt we will have to with the war turning into our favour.. as slow as it is going. We have done one op against pirates in Tama (Goon Feds), as for the Gallente internal problems.. its something I was not expecting.
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The Practicals might. If there was enough of a profit to be made. Then again they would most likely want deniability which a KB cant provide so maybe not.
Post. This one. Yours. Made my night.
Glad I could help. :D
I thought about this a bit more and another thought occured to me. When I was in militia on Ember we did a few joint ops with the Gallente to clear pirates that poached both sides in Tama and a few other places as well. They were mostly done OOCly just so we could keep the warzone clear of pie's or if it was a sufficient target of opportunity to warrant such actions like a carrier or a large fleet with some faction ship kills to be had.
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I think Shaalira captures the sentiment pretty well.
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Yes it goes fine with the idea of honor among pir... err, privateers, as the militias are explained above by Shaalira (I like!). But for those in FW who want to roleplay the idealistic national soldier and advertise as the 'good guys' fighting for the only 'noble cause' in the cluster, etc., they get into a bit of a pickle, no?
I'd be impressed if the nationalistic fervor is just a smokescreen, and I'll have to look it over again to see if the option is still open to it, but I have a feeling it is not.
It's likely my poor understanding of how the CEP and State Pro relate, but I have a difficult time figuring out how to interact with privateers who hold up their letters of marque and declare they are the more noble or patriotic pilot... not that it's in any way wrong, I just find it tricky to navigate. ;)
I will try interacting with FW pilots as if they were fringe national mercs and we'll see how it goes.
In any case, while I find slinging accusations on IGS makes for boring diplomacy, at least it makes for interesting combat. :yar:
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It's worth noting that you can be a privateer and a national hero -- Sir Francis Drake (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Drake") is a good example.
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Well I-RED has yet to do a joint fleet with the Gallente against Caldari Militia (KOS Militia corps like W-BR/THE4), and I doubt we will have to with the war turning into our favour.. as slow as it is going.
If anyone wants to keep track:
http://killboard.wolfsbrigade.org/?a=cc_detail&ctr_id=1&view=recent_activity (http://killboard.wolfsbrigade.org/?a=cc_detail&ctr_id=1&view=recent_activity)
I do find it odd your alliance has been defending Federation Navy installations. I know, I know, wardecs in a mission plex visible on everyone's overview. But where's the arr-pee? ;)
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The RP is simply enough explained "They just happened to be in a FedNav installation, and so did we"
The Feds and Ishukone have some prisoner exchange thing going on, and Heth has accused Ishukone of collaborating with the FIO Etc.
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Well I-RED has yet to do a joint fleet with the Gallente against Caldari Militia (KOS Militia corps like W-BR/THE4), and I doubt we will have to with the war turning into our favour.. as slow as it is going.
If anyone wants to keep track:
http://killboard.wolfsbrigade.org/?a=cc_detail&ctr_id=1&view=recent_activity (http://killboard.wolfsbrigade.org/?a=cc_detail&ctr_id=1&view=recent_activity)
I do find it odd your alliance has been defending Federation Navy installations. I know, I know, wardecs in a mission plex visible on everyone's overview. But where's the arr-pee? ;)
The last engagement was on a gate, also we have only 2 kills in Federal Plex's (1 Vagabond, 1 Manticore.) The Gallente Militia just happened to be chasing W-BR fleet so we cut them off.
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It's worth noting that you can be a privateer and a national hero -- Sir Francis Drake (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Drake") is a good example.
Heheh, I like the opening line in the wikipedia file: "Sir Francis Drake, Vice Admiral (1540 – 27 January 1596) was an English sea captain, privateer, navigator, slaver, a renowned pirate, and a politician of the Elizabethan era." What a CV!
Seems he did conduct his privateering prior to the 'undeclared' Anglo-Spanish war. Bit of a different situation, but then he was a fleet commander at later points in the war, and did not only privateer.
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With W-BR leaving FW to goto nullsec on the 20th. Seems the waves continue to splash as we have just got another war-dec by another Caldari FW corporation Inglorious-Bastards who are already red for acts of piracy.
More fun times :evil:
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Bastards have been in and out of the STPRO from my understanding. Alot of it comes down to what has already been discussed: the line between privateer & pirate.
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Bastards have been in and out of the STPRO from my understanding. Alot of it comes down to what has already been discussed: the line between privateer & pirate.
From my experience in the past some of the 'Bastards are decent folk, and respectable/honourable. But that might be more of a reflection of time zone, and the fact that the ones I've encountered have had the "Aussie solidarity" thing with me.
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Just had a engagement with them, they are more respectful then W-BR for sure. Though they are KOS for attempting to Ransom a neutral Industrial and POD in Sujarento several weeks ago.
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Though they are KOS for attempting to Ransom a neutral Industrial and POD in Sujarento several weeks ago.
One man's neutral industrial is another's arms smuggler. :twisted:
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Just had a engagement with them, they are more respectful then W-BR for sure. Though they are KOS for attempting to Ransom a neutral Industrial and POD in Sujarento several weeks ago.
I cannot stand Hypocrites.
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Just had a engagement with them, they are more respectful then W-BR for sure. Though they are KOS for attempting to Ransom a neutral Industrial and POD in Sujarento several weeks ago.
I cannot stand Hypocrites.
Not sure what you are on about Milo, but its our ROE.
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http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1513792&page=1#27
Kinda retarded how they are now trying to make personal attacks by adding a I into my first name... People just have to take it to far when playing this game.
:bash:
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http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1513792&page=1#27
Kinda retarded how they are now trying to make personal attacks by adding a I into my first name... People just have to take it to far when playing this game.
:bash:
I saw that, and think it's real nice that someone used a disposable alt to make an OOC, real-name-labeled attack. At least three policies involved in that one...
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http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1513792&page=1#27
If anyone ever needs an example of what miserable failure in understanding the IC/OOC divide looks like... that post on IGS (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1513792&page=1#27) is it.
I presume you reported the post?
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Yes reported. Also petitioned in game since every time I enter system to fight them they say crap like:
[ 2011.05.18 22:29:37 ] JT133 > Caitlin we're getting bored.. you're gonna wardec us then just stay docked?
[ 2011.05.18 22:29:56 ] Dan Pyre > no its caitlin
[ 2011.05.18 22:29:58 ] Dan Pyre > got sand in your vagina?
^^ their lead diplomats.. haha :lol:
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Yes reported. Also petitioned in game since every time I enter system to fight them they say crap like:
[ 2011.05.18 22:29:37 ] JT133 > Caitlin we're getting bored.. you're gonna wardec us then just stay docked?
[ 2011.05.18 22:29:56 ] Dan Pyre > no its caitlin
[ 2011.05.18 22:29:58 ] Dan Pyre > got sand in your vagina?
^^ their lead diplomats.. haha :lol:
That's just sad. I know both of them and expected better tbh. From Dan especially, but they are also both young and apparently immature as well.
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They'll just have to get over the fact that Ishukone (and other Caldari megacorps) have extensive interests in the Federation.
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They'll just have to get over the fact that Ishukone (and other Caldari megacorps) have extensive interests in the Federation.
Not all of them, however.
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They'll just have to get over the fact that Ishukone (and other Caldari megacorps) have extensive interests in the Federation.
Not all of them, however.
Yea. Silly Zero-G Research Firm. So behind the times...
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They'll just have to get over the fact that Ishukone (and other Caldari megacorps) have extensive interests in the Federation.
Not all of them, however.
Yea. Silly Zero-G Research Firm. So behind the times...
:p