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General Discussion => The Speakeasy: OOG/Off-topic Discussion => Topic started by: Jace on 24 Oct 2014, 16:31
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I thought I'd make a thread about this game in case others play it. My pre-order came in the mail today but I am waiting to install it until a friend of mine gets his version so we can start on the same day and learn in multiplayer.
But anyway, if anyone plays this and has thoughts post them here for the funz. If nobody plays it, I guess I can waddle back over to CF and chat about it there. :P
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I got it, and I play it, but I be the player of single player...because I suck at it. :P
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I haven't played it but watched so many of their livestreams and other people demoing it that I can safely say that this firaxis game is my biggest disappointment from them. More than Civ 5, which had enough redeeming qualities to balance off the bad ones. Considering the huge difference between the sheepish media reviews and player reviews (completely mixed, varying between awesome and terrible), I suppose that I am not the only one.
But i'm too old school and elitist when it comes to 4X games. I usually don't like the new direction Firaxis seems to be taking in their games, and while they mean to cater to a bigger audience with more gimmicky and bland gameplay (in my eyes), I think they are losing their old school fans like me.
Though i'm still not totally sold on a bad opinion either. There are good ideas in that game and it doesn't seem awful, far from it.
My biggest gripes atm :
- Gimmicky gameplay, basically turning everything into gather a few points (like virtues, etc), unlock that little perk, get small bonuses, start again, choose another one... Typical of their latest games.
- Factions do not have much differences between them and their tiny bonuses just seem to be meaningless. Also still struggling to see why Brazilia suddenly got to be the militarist faction. Why not ? Ok, but weird.
- Bland, weird factions. They do not seem to 'speak' to me. I feel like there is nothing special in the lore.
- Interesting but messy tech tree. I don't like it. It's confusing, especially for the first playthroughs, and only add unnecessary complexity where it should not. Too much freedom in that kind of things kills freedom. Same for virtues.
- Tech tree freedom means that if you want to win, especially technologically, forces you to rush techs by skipping most of the things. Affinities also mean that you have to let 2/3 of them behind. It is debatable if that's good or not, but I hate it. Especially as an usual technology player.
- Like in Civ 5, no direct control over budgets and interior policies like in the old civs and most 4X games. Why they decided to drop that is beyond me, though it hints at :casual: :casual: :casual:...
- So few units ! They keep telling that they are customizable, but it's just about a few perks here and there. Give it 20% bonus against range. Yay. Not even an unit workshop, something I would expect from a 4X game that wants to use base 'hulls' like units to build upon.
- Completely debatable, I know, since it's not a SMAC successor (but it still draws many inspirations from there) : I would have expected a much deeper gameplay like in SMAC, with meaningful things like elevation gameplay, water gameplay and cities, meaningful and in depth factions, each one of them with a very different gameplay, a 'random' tech tree, interior policies, a true UN style council of factions with serious consequences, and fucking mind worms, not stupid cheesy kawaii aliens.
- Art direction is piss poor. Landscape look awful, and aliens look stupidly bland. Each affinity's design also look rubbish, especially the harmony one. And if you are not fan of mechs, then purity, not so much either... To be honest, I just feel that everything is cliché, almost childish in its looks, which was already an issue in Civ 4-5. It's very indicative of their casual approach to their games. Compared to a game like Endless Legend ( :cube:), it's pretty shit, but I guess that game set the standard higher too recently for it to impact on civ games. Not that they care anyway.
- Also, while they say it's a Civ in itself, and so uses the same engine and all, I can understand why trolls sometimes say that it's just Civ 5 with a SciFi skin. We usually see much more work and novelty between each Civ title.
Pros :
- The music, as usual.
- Interesting ideas, like choosing what you bring with you in your spaceship, though the choices are awfully limited eventually.
- The idea behind affinities.
- Espionage, like in SMAC.
- Quests.
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Finished one playthrough and I loved it pretty much like I've loved every Civ game. Like with V they've stripped out the needlessly clunky and boring stuff to make way for more enjoyable gameplay. You'll always have the cranky people who'd rather get a reskin of SMAC than Civ5, but this one ticked all my spots as a more casual Civ player. IN SPACE.
Quest system made things interesting, giving both a bit of story flavor while also delivering a surprising amount of customizing of your buildings/economy. The tech tree was initially a bit overwhelming but a few techs in it became quite comfortable and I frankly love that this time around it's not "Yeah, you can just research EVERYTHING. Doesn't really matter." but instead you can choose between affinities, or even go wide-spread and go for a Domination victory instead. The Virtues system is really nifty as it rewards both going deep or wide with different bonuses to the specific subjects or synergy bonuses if you spread them around.
I would also recommend actually playing it before naysaying on the "tiny bonuses" of the factions, because they really do have an impact. It's quite significant to have for instance a much higher work speed for workers, or better spy system etc etc.
Love the art myself. It's pretty much exactly how Civ in Space would look. Harmony tech looks like biotech, etc. The augmentation guys go nicely "cyborgy" etc.
I find it very enjoyable and I really do recommend it, but just remember that this isn't the same as an earthbound civ game. You're not going through the entirety of human history and ending up with situations where you are bombing legionnaires etc. You're in one era of human history, the colonization and mastery of an alien planet. This means less unit variety but also more cohesion and everything matters. Researched tech won't be vastly outdated and pointless, either.
Civ5 also has the benefit of two expansions and fuck knows how many minor DLCs. If gameplay videos and the theme doesn't suck you in as it did me, I'd probably recommend just sticking with Civ5 for now, until Beyond Earth gets an expansion or two. Me? I'll be playing the singleplayer at least twice more which should lead to 20-30 hours, before I take another Civ break, which is about my usual Civ cycle.
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is there a demo version ?
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Download Demo butan on Steam.
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Download Demo butan on Steam.
that's good to hear. too many things dont have demos nowadays, all seems to be pay&take chances, or early access to unfinished (and might not be finished) things.
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My friend still doesn't have his so I haven't played yet. I'm thinking about not waiting for him. I've had this preordered since the first week they opened up preorder. Hnnggg.
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I miss Alpha Centauri terribly.
Perhaps worth a demo download to test run this game!
(http://lparchive.org/Sid-Meiers-Alpha-Centauri/Update%204/6-capture_07072007_142754.jpg)
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WARNING!
This is not Alpha Centauri 2. It isn't trying to be. It never will be.
This is Civ, in space. More to the point, Civ5 in space.
If you liked Civ5 and like sci-fi, you'll probably like this, but it's not Alpha Centauri.
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WARNING!
This is not Alpha Centauri 2. It isn't trying to be. It never will be.
This is Civ, in space. More to the point, Civ5 in space.
If you liked Civ5 and like sci-fi, you'll probably like this, but it's not Alpha Centauri.
Yes, this. The devs were very clear long before it was released that it is not AC, not intended to be AC, nor even a spiritual successor to it. It is a continuation of the Civ series post Civ-5. Nothing else.
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NERVE STAPLES FOR BOTH OF YOU
(http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/2011/04/staples.png)
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I have been playing this, and enjoying it. I am enjoying trying to make the precursors to my favorite Sci-Fi societies.
There is lots of AI.
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Gave the demo a whirl:
Seems to be as mentioned, just a Civ V reskin, for good or bad. I think a lot of people loved Civ V's more 'approachable' aesthetics and gameplay.
Beyond Earth certainly is missing the soul and the sci-fi heart of Alpha Centauri, that's for sure. The factions seem extremely bland, and I just don't get that depth of lore and great writing AC had: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIUb66Q6abQ
Might spend some more time with it though
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Gave the demo a whirl:
Seems to be as mentioned, just a Civ V reskin, for good or bad. I think a lot of people loved Civ V's more 'approachable' aesthetics and gameplay.
Beyond Earth certainly is missing the soul and the sci-fi heart of Alpha Centauri, that's for sure. The factions seem extremely bland, and I just don't get that depth of lore and great writing AC had: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIUb66Q6abQ
Might spend some more time with it though
Most of the techs and wonders have some good technobabble on the help screen. My greatest gripe with it so far is that it's a bit clunky in the interface, and other civs take too long on their turns, which is odd, because there often isn't as much going on as there was in Civ 5.
Also, they really needed to do a bit of art upgrading. No movies for wonder completion, the game is actually uglier than Civ 5, and faction differences really could use a bit more differentiation.
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Finished one playthrough and I loved it pretty much like I've loved every Civ game. Like with V they've stripped out the needlessly clunky and boring stuff to make way for more enjoyable gameplay. You'll always have the cranky people who'd rather get a reskin of SMAC than Civ5, but this one ticked all my spots as a more casual Civ player. IN SPACE.
Well, I'm not cranky firstly.
Secondly, what you consider clunky and boring, I consider deep and meaningful. But that's probably because i'm a big fan of Grand Strategy like Europa Universalis, etc. I expect to see in my 4X a certain level of depth and realistic stuff, and not skill trees with things to unlock to replace configurable and customizable things like interior policies, budgets, etc. I'm the first one to scream when those are needlessly complicated, as many things actually lose their fun essence when convolution starts to replace elegant simplicity, but here it's more about a casual thing vs old school thing I suppose.
I'm not using the casual words as derogatory. It's just a question of audience and to whom you cater your game. I just stated my personal taste on the matter, that's all.
Quest system made things interesting, giving both a bit of story flavor while also delivering a surprising amount of customizing of your buildings/economy.
The introduction of quests, which is taken directly from SMAC but actually made more pervasive and complex here, is a great addition. They also did that at the same time in Endless Legend, and if it's similar to the latter in Beyond Earth, then jackpot. It's a really good way to add storytelling elements and immersion to every game, and if done right, can bring very different flavour to each one. The rest is up to the player to make up his imaginary own fluff around it in his head, as usual.
The tech tree was initially a bit overwhelming but a few techs in it became quite comfortable and I frankly love that this time around it's not "Yeah, you can just research EVERYTHING. Doesn't really matter." but instead you can choose between affinities, or even go wide-spread and go for a Domination victory instead.
As I said above I understand the idea behind, I just don't like it. As a tech player I usually like to research all the things, and being barred from doing so (unless spreading all around for a domination victory as you say), is constraining in itself and bars me from one of the fundamentals of my playstyle.
More generally, I understand that the game forces you make choice, which is good in itself, but here it is at the expense of enjoying all the content. I like to enjoy all the technological content in my 4X games.
I can understand some like it better like that, but I don't. It's like telling a military player that the only way for him to win is to rush through a SINGLE enemy capital and that's it. Here it's kind of similar to my eyes : if I want a scientific victory, I have to rush through a narrow tech path and voila.
The Virtues system is really nifty as it rewards both going deep or wide with different bonuses to the specific subjects or synergy bonuses if you spread them around.
I have less gripes with the virtues in themselves. As much as I have seen how they work and what they bring (not much different from the doctrines from civ 5, just less linear), how many of them can you unlock in one playthrough ? A quarter ? Half ? 90%? All of them ?
Not saying that all of them should be unlockable in one go, just curious about it.
I would also recommend actually playing it before naysaying on the "tiny bonuses" of the factions, because they really do have an impact. It's quite significant to have for instance a much higher work speed for workers, or better spy system etc etc.
When you have played SMAC, GalCiv or Amplitude games, I can assure you that those bonuses are ridiculously insignificant...
Love the art myself. It's pretty much exactly how Civ in Space would look. Harmony tech looks like biotech, etc. The augmentation guys go nicely "cyborgy" etc.
Harmony tech to me looks like Chtulhuh in space honestly, and Purity looks like mechwarrior, but to each his tastes I guess. I just find their Art Direction completely grotesque. You even have a master chief skin for your marines at some point.
As for the terrain in itself, as a levelbuilder myself, I find it ugly, especially the colours that are disharmonious and displeasing to the eye. Maybe that's what they wanted after all, but there is a huge difference between something unaesthetical/alien IRL and the way to picture it. vOv
Civ5 also has the benefit of two expansions and fuck knows how many minor DLCs. If gameplay videos and the theme doesn't suck you in as it did me, I'd probably recommend just sticking with Civ5 for now, until Beyond Earth gets an expansion or two. Me? I'll be playing the singleplayer at least twice more which should lead to 20-30 hours, before I take another Civ break, which is about my usual Civ cycle.
Expansions in the latter civ titles are actually something that piss me off to no bound. That's just content for which they make you pay the price of a full game everytime.
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I've not been enjoying it that much. Not because I don't like the core gameplay or aesthetic, but just because the AI is as dumb as a brick. It doesn't have any idea what to do with the tech web and so almost never beats you to a wonder or poses a great military threat, and will accept completely terrible deals when trading. I managed to get the Slavic Federation to, in exchange for 10 science for 90 turns, give me enough energy to just buy science buildings equal to 12 per turn, forever. And some titanium on top of that!
This still happens on the higher difficulties, as well - They just cheat more to make up for it.
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There was something that felt off with Civ V for me that I never could put my finger on and Civ BE hasn't done anything to fix it. I can roll with the Sci-fi flavour for a while but the game isn't anything special and I doubt I'll get many hours out of it before it bores me to tears.
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This is not Alpha Centauri 2. It isn't trying to be. It never will be.
This is Civ, in space. More to the point, Civ5 in space.
If you liked Civ5 and like sci-fi, you'll probably like this, but it's not Alpha Centauri.
But...but...
I thought Alpha Centauri was Civ in space?
Though I think I see what you're saying :) When there was a Colonization add on (for Civ 4 I think?) I was like WOO YES OH BABY because I thought it was gonna be, well, like an updated Colonization. It kind of wasn't.
...I just got Colonization on good old games instead, because I am (sometimes) one of those cranky gamers ;)
(I genuinely enjoyed the modern take on UFO, and I think that also does the 'stripping away for entertainment' type thing you reference; far more stream-lined and intuitive, but I have to admit I'm enjoying the clunky retro Xenonauts more - if enjoying is the right word, anyway :evil: Sometimes I wonder if it's less I'm a bitter vet of EVE, and more gaming in general ^^)
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While with SMAC they certainly used a lot of fundamental core mechanisms of civ (cities, tiles, terrain, unit movement), it really was trying to be something else, different. Everything else is different.
Beyond Earth never claimed to do that, they specifically called for a civ in space.
I've not been enjoying it that much. Not because I don't like the core gameplay or aesthetic, but just because the AI is as dumb as a brick. It doesn't have any idea what to do with the tech web and so almost never beats you to a wonder or poses a great military threat, and will accept completely terrible deals when trading. I managed to get the Slavic Federation to, in exchange for 10 science for 90 turns, give me enough energy to just buy science buildings equal to 12 per turn, forever. And some titanium on top of that!
This still happens on the higher difficulties, as well - They just cheat more to make up for it.
Mh yes, that's one of the recurring flaws of a lot of 4X games. Though generally in other Civ titles the AI still manages to do something and actually tries stuff, even if not very well... In Beyond Earth I have indeed read many complains that the AI is just passive. Same in Endless, where strategically and development wise it's quite good, tactically and diplomatically it's just utterly passive and as stupid as a fedo.
And it's insulting the fedo.
Though if the AI is not faring good with the tech tree itself, it's rather... scary tbh.
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I honestly thought that was just what it was, at the time. :s
Kind of a deliberate follow on where you get space travel in Civ, then just doing it with a sci-fi theme.
But I'm quite happy to admit wrongness :P I only played it briefly and didn't like it much tbh >.>
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I'm never a fan of games choosing accessibility over depth, and it seems civV/BE leans towards the former.
Different strokes for different folks. I think CIV V is the "Sims" of 4x games though, the one more tuned to the mobile market. Not everyone wants to sit down for 35 hours to play one game of multiplayer though, so they have a huge paying market.
I remember they did a CIV port to the Xbox 360 and I got super frustrated with how stripped down it was when trying to play w my friends online
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I don't think it's fair to equate streamlined with lacking depth. Overly convoluted and complex systems are just as easily a sign of bad UI design as it is a sign of any depth. Civ5/BE aren't as deep as SMAC etc, but I'd hardly call it overly simple either. There's just the option of playing a superficial game if that's what tickles your fancy and that's what I enjoy.
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I thoroughly regret starting this thread.
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Played it, loved it. Epic music, great gameplay, AI is a bit meh, could use a bit more aggression, why does no one declare war on me when I start charging up the mindflower?
Its definitely got a bit of vanilla blues to it, but its an awesome foundation. The only real criticism I would make is that the colour palate is bit monotoned. Everything is shades of blue and green and it makes it a bit tricky to tell what everything is, where there is miasma and where there isn't, but overall I definitely reccomend. If you liked Civ 5, you'll definitely enjoy this. I already like it better then Civ5 in many ways, though I would like if they added Religion back in so I can create the fremen and dominate Dune.
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Played it, loved it. Epic music, great gameplay, AI is a bit meh, could use a bit more aggression, why does no one declare war on me when I start charging up the mindflower?
Its definitely got a bit of vanilla blues to it, but its an awesome foundation. The only real criticism I would make is that the colour palate is bit monotoned. Everything is shades of blue and green and it makes it a bit tricky to tell what everything is, where there is miasma and where there isn't, but overall I definitely reccomend. If you liked Civ 5, you'll definitely enjoy this. I already like it better then Civ5 in many ways, though I would like if they added Religion back in so I can create the fremen and dominate Dune.
"Vanilla blues" is a great way to describe most of the impressions I've had from other Civ 5 friends. Enjoyed it, but can't wait to see how the AI is changed and additional features added - much like it was with Civ 5.
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Yeah like, the factions are good, but seeing the same factions in every game gets a bit old. Just gotta wait for more to come out though.
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Yeah like, the factions are good, but seeing the same factions in every game gets a bit old. Just gotta wait for more to come out though.
The improvement of Civ 5 after the expansions and AI patches was astronomic. They really do respond to reasonable fan criticism.
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Excellent as always:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/11/12/beyond-earth-review/#more-249185
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Well, I've been playing BE for the past couple of weeks, and, honestly, found it a bit addicting. The necessity of prioritizing research options and making exclusive choices in your build gives it a lot of replay value.
I wish they'd make it a bit harder to grab a bit of everything, though. It's relatively easy to wind up with 16 of one and 9 or so of the other affinity choices, thus giving you all you really care about.
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I still haven't opened it because I do not want to break my tradition with my friend and play our first game of a new Civ together. I've been having a blast playing Borderlands 2 (yes, yes, I am behind the times) so I do not mind waiting for him anymore.
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I have begun playing it. Enjoyable, but long-term replayability will be dependent upon expansions or significant multiplayer - the opponent AI simply is not engaging enough for it to be a long-term singleplayer game. It will probably give me a couple months of gametime during my current hiatus from EVE before I check out one of my many other unplayed-but-purchased games on Steam. If I get into it enough, I may write up a substantial review. But it will have to get to the two hundred hour mark for that to be worth it, I think.
On a side note, I hope Rhea is treating you all well and that the future holds nothing but bright things.
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It's not SMAC, wasn't designed to be, never will be and comparing the two is an exercise in futility and/or self-gratification.
GAZE UPON MY HERESY AND WEEP
(http://api.ning.com/files/4GzSkqP0iVFF3p2QtPqVx84b2tqBQcFa4Ba-5mxDNNOGHCvPPDreOKX9yyzOcboABh-TK5s*1vamIsdCj7yJU1rMMkw8nQ0i/fma20091thumb.jpg)
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It's not SMAC, wasn't designed to be, never will be and comparing the two is an exercise in futility and/or self-gratification.
Disagree! They of course say it's more of a 'spiritual successor' but it's hard not to compare two turn based civ style hex games set in the future where different factions of humanity colonize an alien planet and try to survive against both the biosphere and the other factions before attaining one of several victory conditions while upgrading units and researching a wide tech tree, exercising diplomacy and war in equal measures along the way.
:P
Yes it is its own thing, but AC will be a stick its measured against for good or bad for people who've played both.
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It's not SMAC, wasn't designed to be, never will be and comparing the two is an exercise in futility and/or self-gratification.
Disagree! They of course say it's more of a 'spiritual successor' but it's hard not to compare two turn based civ style hex games set in the future where different factions of humanity colonize an alien planet and try to survive against both the biosphere and the other factions before attaining one of several victory conditions while upgrading units and researching a wide tech tree, exercising diplomacy and war in equal measures along the way.
:P
Yes it is its own thing, but AC will be a stick its measured against for good or bad for people who've played both.
... Why do you not weep at my heresy? :cry:
And to be fair I think my original point was lost in translation, a lot of criticism seems to originate from it not being SMAC, period.
Although if Homeworld can release a "Remastered" edition, there's hope yet.
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Speaking of homeworld, whatever happened to shipbreakers...?
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Blackbird has their development time split between Remastered and Shipbreakers now. They also have investment. So now's actually a good time for them to regroup, plan ahead, and be quiet for a bit.
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It's not AC and should not be compared to AC. Only one person on the development team of BE also worked on AC, members of the team explicitly said in interviews that it has absolutely nothing to do with AC. They quite plainly stated while it was under development that it was Civ 5 in space.
People who checked it out hoping for AC or something similar were just looking for a reason to be annoyed with it. As such people, I hope they have perpetual itchiness for forty days and forty nights.
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Since they added a very few handful of things that were actually part of AC gameplay here and there, I am not so sure it's so clear cut.
And I would be lying if I said that I never ever hoped to see similar quality content than of AC added into the game. I was definitely not expecting AC2 since the beginning, especially after all that was stated by the devs on the subject, but heh...
I hope I don't get perpetual itchiness for forty days and forty nights, right, because I had the awful idea to look up to the classics, you know.
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Nope, it's clear cut.
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I didn't like the factions much none of them seemed terribly relevant to my interests - just thought I'd toss that out there.
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I didn't like the factions much none of them seemed terribly relevant to my interests - just thought I'd toss that out there.
Like most critics I read said too, and comments. That's one of the things that I find the most detrimental because I often care a lot about the lore. Some people to the contrary, don't care the slightest, which is good for them since the game seems to be well designed, even if a bit like vanilla civ 5 that was criticized for its... lack of features at the beginning, until expansions came out to make people change their mind radically.
Well i'm also completely incapable of dealing with a lot of other design things at their very core level, but that's just a question of tastes. I heard that the game in itself is well oiled and designed.
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40% off on steam if you purchase before Monday. I'm not going to but I know some of you were on the fence :)
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40% off on steam if you purchase before Monday. I'm not going to but I know some of you were on the fence :)
free weekend as well, iirc
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I didn't like the factions much none of them seemed terribly relevant to my interests - just thought I'd toss that out there.
Like most critics I read said too, and comments. That's one of the things that I find the most detrimental because I often care a lot about the lore. Some people to the contrary, don't care the slightest, which is good for them since the game seems to be well designed, even if a bit like vanilla civ 5 that was criticized for its... lack of features at the beginning, until expansions came out to make people change their mind radically.
Well i'm also completely incapable of dealing with a lot of other design things at their very core level, but that's just a question of tastes. I heard that the game in itself is well oiled and designed.
people at civfanatics have already done a couple of nice mods to CivBE