Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Synthia on 24 Feb 2014, 15:59
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How satisfied are you with how prime fiction characters are portrayed ?
What are you happy about? what are you unhappy about?
What would you like to happen ?
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I direct you to this for my answer. (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=5439.0)
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Just get rid of Jamyl already :(
It's a living zombiephomaniac insult to every Amarrian RPer that saw her dying.
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Things have been static long enough, fairly significant shakeups need to happen for each major faction in my opinion. Not something necessarily retcon-ish or drastically image-changing, but there needs to be some major ripples in the clusterpond.
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Things have been static long enough, fairly significant shakeups need to happen for each major faction in my opinion. Not something necessarily retcon-ish or drastically image-changing, but there needs to be some major ripples in the clusterpond.
Pretty sure us and the Caldari just got ours?
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It depends on the source. For the most part, I am happy with the prime fiction characters.
Even Jamyl. In fact, I really like Jamyl, and most of her appearances have been fine. I understand that her appearance in the novel was shit, but then basically every character's portrayal in the novel was shit. Being mentally damaged, even being faithless, does not make Jamyl a bad character, or a bad empress, as long as she is written well. Characters do not have to be ideal, perfect representations of their faction, and would be quite boring if they were. Hell, I even like Karsoth, because stuff that goes -against- the ideal provides flavor. I don't expect, nor want, my faction to be perfect.
What matters to me is how a character is written, more than who that character is. Iffy character concepts can be amazing if handled by good writers, while great character concepts can be butchered when handled by bad ones.
With the removal of Tony G, I don't really have any issue with the way things are going right now. Perhaps the only exception to this is Heth's recent stuff, which feels like CCP scrambling to try and appease Caldari complainers and proceeding to failscade the character to get him removed asap.
What would I like to happen? I want to see internal destabilization. TEA era united the factions with their subordinate elements in attempt to build up a 2-coalition-4-faction system. I think we've gone with that for long enough, and it's time to let the internal divides rear their heads. Caldari have already had this in the form of the removal-of-Heth arc. Minmatar seem to be building up to it a bit with Midular II. Gallente also built up to it a bit with the Black Eagles (with player failures actually helping to solidify the BE's power, which is awesome!). And Amarr have what is looking to be a second Moral Reform that's been slowly building for the last 5 years. I'd stress that these shouldn't be explosive and sudden changes in the way that TEA was, instead I'd like to see gradual but steady fracturing.
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Things have been static long enough, fairly significant shakeups need to happen for each major faction in my opinion. Not something necessarily retcon-ish or drastically image-changing, but there needs to be some major ripples in the clusterpond.
Pretty sure us and the Caldari just got ours?
We've been given some changes, yes, but not much indicator of the impact of those changes.
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My character lives in an effective bubble divorced from any real impacts of "Old World" politics. As such the NPC and factions seem to exist solely either as talking points or the occasional point-scoring on IGS by one party or another.
That said, I love my Haatakan Oiritsuu. :cube:
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My character lives in an effective bubble divorced from any real impacts of "Old World" politics. As such the NPC and factions seem to exist solely either as talking points or the occasional point-scoring on IGS by one party or another.
That said, I love my Haatakan Oiritsuu. :cube:
Seconding this, although I wish they'd flesh out more characters than just the opposing forces of Oiritsuu and Reppola (Gariushi lite, Liberal Byron, many other names besides). With the importance of corporate culture to every nation in New Eden, you'd think the NPC movers and shakers would have a little more flesh on their literary bones.
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If I ignore everything that is non-IC access only, Jamyl is a great character.
Its only when Tony Gs idiocy of a novel comes in that she gets stupid.
As for the players who saw her die bit... Her "survival" was the most foreshadowed thing CCP has ever followed through with. The only thing more foreshadowed in the first five years was the Ammatar crisis that never really happened.
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If I ignore everything that is non-IC access only, Jamyl is a great character.
This is what I did. No real problems with the character that way.
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Well, it's here, it happened, it is canon, so it exists. I can plug my ears as much as I want and play the ostrich, that will never make the character any better, no matter what they try to do to fix it. Instead, they kill good, balanced, and faillible characters like Midular.
Oh right... she also got harmed by TonyG.
To hell with that, burn her too.
If I ignore everything that is non-IC access only, Jamyl is a great character.
Its only when Tony Gs idiocy of a novel comes in that she gets stupid.
As for the players who saw her die bit... Her "survival" was the most foreshadowed thing CCP has ever followed through with. The only thing more foreshadowed in the first five years was the Ammatar crisis that never really happened.
I don't see how it was foreshadowed at all.
Or I could also expect Midular to come back in a few years because you press a button and it's awesome, and then tell that it was foreshadowed. Yeah, I am pretty sure she will come back, it's obvious she is not dead.
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Well, if it's for TonyG's novel, then you have to throw out the entire background not just a character or two, imho.
I'm content with how the characters get represented by now, mostly, but not really happy:
The living history of EVE has a big problem all worlds with a living history have, of which I know. For one, the writers have their little pet projects which they look after, but no one really considers how these all fit together. It's simply that they have a 'great idea', write about it, and then it gets dumped and next time they turn some chars around or twist some previously established facts just to suit their story.
Second, the players are not really involved in shaping the history. We've seen that time and again. to CCP's credit there were a few events where players got successfully involved in shaping the history, but by large the 'living history' of EVE is weirdly disconnected with what players do. Just think of the Sansha plotline: How often have incursions been beaten back by now? What did happen? When have we last time heared from Sansha? Does anyone really know who is winning or loosing this conflict? Is there any indication? As far as we know tomorrow will be pretty much like the first days of incursions and the day after as well. After implementing the game mechanics, the plotline got static.
The same is true for FW, to give another example.
And that, does ofcourse reflect on the chracters. And mostly poorly so.
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accidental double post.
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Hail to the King, baby.
Most of the PF characters are wank, idiotic and simply unlikable. I'd complain about how poorly they stay true to their respective characters but depending who's writing them at the time they vary so drastically. We have ridiculous caricatures of people. The SpaceLesbian Schitzo-Nympho Psychic, The Villain now in limbo previously known as the Prince Nazi, The "I Hit Things To Solve Them" -Brute and... Voldemort, but with added nose. Of course my favourite is the Witch Hermit on a Magical Space Rock, Doing special rap magic removing kebabs from the premises at the helm of her crime cartel.
Even the "supporting" characters make no sense. Oiritsuu is one moment pissing herself scared and whimpering and with a flip of a coin supercool flowercutter tossing out veiled threats. I mean, if I wanted to read about the shenanigans of Starscream I have way better venues for that. Most other side folks are just not even worth mentioning.
The King went and had his own God's promised land, but with blackjack and hookers. He kept on being a smartass with a throne, but again some wanktard decided that "no wait, lets have him go back to fold instead." and yeah... At least his still a smartass.
Granted CCP has tried to fix some of the wank to better direction, but all the same it leaves them a mess of things at best. Slowly they seem to be trying to mop up the mess, but... they also leave a lot of spills around.
Stop, drop and lol is the way to deal with PF characters and their consistency.
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Way I see it there are a couple options to those who enjoy politics and the drama of war:
Wait on overly simple and one-dimesional characters to provide well written content via empires.
or,
Sort through a literal pile of dicks to find the good political and war drama RP in null.
Neither are great options honestly. personally, I go for a mix of both to minimize the amount I have to be exposed to either while still getting my content and story
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I don't think we are going to see player influenced PF content anymore. CCP seems to have chosen the path of non bias and favoritism, as shown with dev actors in channels, official channels, and their more general stance on the matter.
And i'm not especially complaining tbh, considering the experience of all those years.
Hail to the King, baby.
Most of the PF characters are wank, idiotic and simply unlikable. I'd complain about how poorly they stay true to their respective characters but depending who's writing them at the time they vary so drastically. We have ridiculous caricatures of people. The SpaceLesbian Schitzo-Nympho Psychic, The Villain now in limbo previously known as the Prince Nazi, The "I Hit Things To Solve Them" -Brute and... Voldemort, but with added nose. Of course my favourite is the Witch Hermit on a Magical Space Rock, Doing special rap magic removing kebabs from the premises at the helm of her crime cartel.
Even the "supporting" characters make no sense. Oiritsuu is one moment pissing herself scared and whimpering and with a flip of a coin supercool flowercutter tossing out veiled threats. I mean, if I wanted to read about the shenanigans of Starscream I have way better venues for that. Most other side folks are just not even worth mentioning.
The King went and had his own God's promised land, but with blackjack and hookers. He kept on being a smartass with a throne, but again some wanktard decided that "no wait, lets have him go back to fold instead." and yeah... At least his still a smartass.
Granted CCP has tried to fix some of the wank to better direction, but all the same it leaves them a mess of things at best. Slowly they seem to be trying to mop up the mess, but... they also leave a lot of spills around.
Stop, drop and lol is the way to deal with PF characters and their consistency.
Thank you.
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You aren't going to find Jamyl being forshadowed in the published stuff. It was more a word of mouth from event actors to sarumite players sort of thing.
The rumor that Jamyl never died was about the one constant rumor in the four years running up to FW. Talk to Graelyn sometime if you want the more inside story.
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A rumor so rumorey that only people who heard the gossip first hand know about it? Now that's epic.
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Yeeeeeaaah...
From what I've heard of it, it was only rumored to a very few people... but to those people, it was 'rumored' in the 'brick wall to the face' kind of way.
:shenanigans:
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Yep. But side effect is that *everyone* in Amarr RP for the first five years had a hunch that Jamyl might be coming back or that she was still alive.
We have all sorts of notes for newbies in the older PIE PF material going "don't listen to people who say she is alive."
Also, there was the whole house Sarum never picking a heir thing. That added a lot of weight to the rumors.
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You aren't going to find Jamyl being forshadowed in the published stuff. It was more a word of mouth from event actors to sarumite players sort of thing.
The rumor that Jamyl never died was about the one constant rumor in the four years running up to FW. Talk to Graelyn sometime if you want the more inside story.
Mah shotgun'z loaded with TEXT.
I wasn't around for the Amarr Tournament, but after wandering haplessly into the ImpApoc event with PIE/Oracle that shoved me face-first into RP forever, I started doing my homework.
The Sarum Team at that tourament had been stacked with BNC/BoB. The prevailing theory was that they were chosen for Sarum by the devs to make sure that side won, and that their defeat by Elliptical and co. was a screw-up. I had been reading chatlogs that someone had posted of the aftermath of the tourney, in which one of the Sarum team (Discorporation or Dianabolic, not sure which) had openly stated something along the lines of "Oh well, they'll bring her back anyways, she was supposed to win".
When I saw this offhanded comment, which was made in public, (and in a twisted way I could barely justify as IC info), I kept it in mind. I was still crafting Graelyn's central design ideas, and as a Progressive manipulator-type character, it seemed like a crucial key; to save the Empire's future, I had to keep a hardline reclaimer like Jamyl off the throne if I could. Plus, the comment's source gave it weight; even back then everyone knew that BoB and the Devs were in cahoots, the extent of which would become painfully apparent years later in a series of controversies better documented elsewhere...
When the Tetrimon first re-appeared, I led the loyalist Amarr forces trying to stop them. It wasn't because I was anything special, I just happened to be the first guy to notice the blue text in the Amarr channel that evening (hooray for being deployed to Japan and playing odd pacific timezones!). While most loyalists chased the Order to destroy them before they found a nest in the Empire, the Sarumites (Mirial and her Seraphs) 'joined' our efforts...to sabotage them. Bad info was leaked, fabricated sightings were reported, and I led our response group chasing after the bad data. We got owned; the Order made it to safe haven without us getting within 10 jumps of anything Tetrimon.
When I realized this, I started taking Mirial and co. seriously. Here was a powerful corporation, with lots of members, BPOs, manufacturing, assets, and PvPers. I decided then that if Jamyl made a return to power and ever reached out to capsuleers, this group would certainly be her right hand.
Aegis Militia was founded in an attempt to get my liberal corp (The Aeternus Crusade) deep into bed with the Sarumites, so when the critical moment came, I would be in perfect position to strike what I hoped to be a critical blow.
Man, we really thought they would let us influence things back then. A tough illusion to break yourself of....anyways....
Istvaan's Great Heist, of which Mirial and Ubiqua Seraph were the target, put my corp in better standing within the Alliance; they actually needed us now, and we stuck with them loyally after the disaster (The heist happened 30 hours after the foundation of AM). I was able to craft the charter and eventually stack the voting process to control things, mainly in an effort to keep the Sarumites from fighting PIE/CVA, something they were always chomping at the bit at every opportunity to do.
Once Mirial got banned for cheating, AM was in my complete control. The Tetrimon were murdered in my own tower by Imperial dreads, and no one had cried Foul...the path was set. Now the hand that would be called upon was Me.
And then TonyG happened. All for nothing. Jamyl did her thing during a day's downtime and all the crazy RPer machinations and the many players involved just vanished overnight, never to return.
It really was a different game for me back then. It's hard to really state how much I miss it.
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You aren't going to find Jamyl being forshadowed in the published stuff. It was more a word of mouth from event actors to sarumite players sort of thing.
The rumor that Jamyl never died was about the one constant rumor in the four years running up to FW. Talk to Graelyn sometime if you want the more inside story.
Mah shotgun'z loaded with TEXT.
I wasn't around for the Amarr Tournament, but after wandering haplessly into the ImpApoc event with PIE/Oracle that shoved me face-first into RP forever, I started doing my homework.
The Sarum Team at that tourament had been stacked with BNC/BoB. The prevailing theory was that they were chosen for Sarum by the devs to make sure that side won, and that their defeat by Elliptical and co. was a screw-up. I had been reading chatlogs that someone had posted of the aftermath of the tourney, in which one of the Sarum team (Discorporation or Dianabolic, not sure which) had openly stated something along the lines of "Oh well, they'll bring her back anyways, she was supposed to win".
When I saw this offhanded comment, which was made in public, (and in a twisted way I could barely justify as IC info), I kept it in mind. I was still crafting Graelyn's central design ideas, and as a Progressive manipulator-type character, it seemed like a crucial key; to save the Empire's future, I had to keep a hardline reclaimer like Jamyl off the throne if I could. Plus, the comment's source gave it weight; even back then everyone knew that BoB and the Devs were in cahoots, the extent of which would become painfully apparent years later in a series of controversies better documented elsewhere...
When the Tetrimon first re-appeared, I led the loyalist Amarr forces trying to stop them. It wasn't because I was anything special, I just happened to be the first guy to notice the blue text in the Amarr channel that evening (hooray for being deployed to Japan and playing odd pacific timezones!). While most loyalists chased the Order to destroy them before they found a nest in the Empire, the Sarumites (Mirial and her Seraphs) 'joined' our efforts...to sabotage them. Bad info was leaked, fabricated sightings were reported, and I led our response group chasing after the bad data. We got owned; the Order made it to safe haven without us getting within 10 jumps of anything Tetrimon.
When I realized this, I started taking Mirial and co. seriously. Here was a powerful corporation, with lots of members, BPOs, manufacturing, assets, and PvPers. I decided then that if Jamyl made a return to power and ever reached out to capsuleers, this group would certainly be her right hand.
Aegis Militia was founded in an attempt to get my liberal corp (The Aeternus Crusade) deep into bed with the Sarumites, so when the critical moment came, I would be in perfect position to strike what I hoped to be a critical blow.
Man, we really thought they would let us influence things back then. A tough illusion to break yourself of....anyways....
Istvaan's Great Heist, of which Mirial and Ubiqua Seraph were the target, put my corp in better standing within the Alliance; they actually needed us now, and we stuck with them loyally after the disaster (The heist happened 30 hours after the foundation of AM). I was able to craft the charter and eventually stack the voting process to control things, mainly in an effort to keep the Sarumites from fighting PIE/CVA, something they were always chomping at the bit at every opportunity to do.
Once Mirial got banned for cheating, AM was in my complete control. The Tetrimon were murdered in my own tower by Imperial dreads, and no one had cried Foul...the path was set. Now the hand that would be called upon was Me.
And then TonyG happened. All for nothing. Jamyl did her thing during a day's downtime and all the crazy RPer machinations and the many players involved just vanished overnight, never to return.
It really was a different game for me back then. It's hard to really state how much I miss it.
This is what should have been in the first Eve: True Stories arc.
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I see the Empress is winning.
Vive la SpaceLesbian.
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You aren't going to find Jamyl being forshadowed in the published stuff. It was more a word of mouth from event actors to sarumite players sort of thing.
The rumor that Jamyl never died was about the one constant rumor in the four years running up to FW. Talk to Graelyn sometime if you want the more inside story.
Mah shotgun'z loaded with TEXT.
I wasn't around for the Amarr Tournament, but after wandering haplessly into the ImpApoc event with PIE/Oracle that shoved me face-first into RP forever, I started doing my homework.
The Sarum Team at that tourament had been stacked with BNC/BoB. The prevailing theory was that they were chosen for Sarum by the devs to make sure that side won, and that their defeat by Elliptical and co. was a screw-up. I had been reading chatlogs that someone had posted of the aftermath of the tourney, in which one of the Sarum team (Discorporation or Dianabolic, not sure which) had openly stated something along the lines of "Oh well, they'll bring her back anyways, she was supposed to win".
When I saw this offhanded comment, which was made in public, (and in a twisted way I could barely justify as IC info), I kept it in mind. I was still crafting Graelyn's central design ideas, and as a Progressive manipulator-type character, it seemed like a crucial key; to save the Empire's future, I had to keep a hardline reclaimer like Jamyl off the throne if I could. Plus, the comment's source gave it weight; even back then everyone knew that BoB and the Devs were in cahoots, the extent of which would become painfully apparent years later in a series of controversies better documented elsewhere...
When the Tetrimon first re-appeared, I led the loyalist Amarr forces trying to stop them. It wasn't because I was anything special, I just happened to be the first guy to notice the blue text in the Amarr channel that evening (hooray for being deployed to Japan and playing odd pacific timezones!). While most loyalists chased the Order to destroy them before they found a nest in the Empire, the Sarumites (Mirial and her Seraphs) 'joined' our efforts...to sabotage them. Bad info was leaked, fabricated sightings were reported, and I led our response group chasing after the bad data. We got owned; the Order made it to safe haven without us getting within 10 jumps of anything Tetrimon.
When I realized this, I started taking Mirial and co. seriously. Here was a powerful corporation, with lots of members, BPOs, manufacturing, assets, and PvPers. I decided then that if Jamyl made a return to power and ever reached out to capsuleers, this group would certainly be her right hand.
Aegis Militia was founded in an attempt to get my liberal corp (The Aeternus Crusade) deep into bed with the Sarumites, so when the critical moment came, I would be in perfect position to strike what I hoped to be a critical blow.
Man, we really thought they would let us influence things back then. A tough illusion to break yourself of....anyways....
Istvaan's Great Heist, of which Mirial and Ubiqua Seraph were the target, put my corp in better standing within the Alliance; they actually needed us now, and we stuck with them loyally after the disaster (The heist happened 30 hours after the foundation of AM). I was able to craft the charter and eventually stack the voting process to control things, mainly in an effort to keep the Sarumites from fighting PIE/CVA, something they were always chomping at the bit at every opportunity to do.
Once Mirial got banned for cheating, AM was in my complete control. The Tetrimon were murdered in my own tower by Imperial dreads, and no one had cried Foul...the path was set. Now the hand that would be called upon was Me.
And then TonyG happened. All for nothing. Jamyl did her thing during a day's downtime and all the crazy RPer machinations and the many players involved just vanished overnight, never to return.
It really was a different game for me back then. It's hard to really state how much I miss it.
I wish I played in your era.
Also, I rather be ruled by King Khanid than any of the other choices.
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With current portrayal of prime fiction characters I am strongly dissatisfied.
I won't talk about others, but one, that is related to my character(s) - well, practically, all of them. It is a former leader of Caldari State, Tibus Heth.
At first, it was one of strongest figures, real "hero", from IC point of view. Saving peoples from under the fire, while being just a MTAC worker, or running along regular soldiers during planet takeover, while being leader of the whole empire of numerous star systems. You know, that's rather unique. Then, returning Caldari Prime, all these "meritocracy" reforms... and even attempts to unify Caldari and bring them "glory of old age".
But what happens next?..
Complete incompetence, not only his, but whole State.
Federation attacks Caldari Prime, and with what State replies?.. With nothing.
Heth makes a speech, and crowd becomes aggressive. What Heth does?.. Hides.
He, who was taking that Armory Forge thinking, he would die there, was afraid of just angry mob? Really?..
Why he ignored CEP's and KK attacks on him?..
Why he did nothing, allowing his name to be tarnished, his corporation and his State taken away?..
Why he captured station, that was his anyway?..
It was like two complete different characters. One - selfless Caldari hero, who was even ready to sacrifice his own life, but prevent Caldari blood from spilling. Second - downtrodden scaredy diffident "dictator", running to save his worthless life.
That's just humiliating for Caldari, you know?
P.S.
Glory and Beep Boop to Empress Synthia 01 :bear:
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As for Tibus Heth, he rose to power during a period in which the State was entering an economic recession due to Trade Agreement rifts and decreased exports with the Amarr Empire that appeared to have caused increased unemployment and decreased worker conditions that resulted in the Brothers of Freedom riots across the State, and its being put down with a degree of violent repression by the Megacorporations.
As such, the concept of there being a widespread embrace of nationalism by the masses and the installation of a strong leader by the elites and those in the upper echelons of power in the State fearing widespread revolt never really bothered me, since it appeared sound. However, I do think there was a failure in execution with how things arose with Heth, the CPD and the New Meritocracy. Everything regarding it just bordered on the point of it might as well being magic. Heth needs capital to buy stocks, presto, there's the Broker. Heth needs a casus belli against the Federation, presto, Nyx on Station action. Heth needs a surprise attack on the Federation, presto, how lucky there's a traitor Admiral.
And so on.
The only things that did in fact make sense was that with the way Heth was portrayed as essentially the fool that got lucky due to TonyG he did get toppled by people who actually understood power and politics. Because I guess when you've got the intelligence of a forklift driver you're always going to get outplayed by those that actually know the game of corporate politics. Although I think it's too bad that Heth wasn't cut more from the cloth of say, a Georgian peasant, who had the cunning and guile to use a time of revolution to build an unassailable position of power; create a cult of personality around themselves; use the CPD as the secret police to kill and arrest all those who would dare oppose him; and divide then conquer the Megacorp CEO's one by one in order to create the vision of an all-powerful State.
But Heth wasn't. Instead it seems he just wasn't smart or ruthless enough to bring his vision into reality.
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For Lithium and Veik:
Having a scan over EVE Source, it seems to be the case that Derj's Disease, which Tibus Heth suffered, preventing him from ever being pod-capable (something to do with cloning as I remember), also seems to be described as a cause of, direct quote; "instability".
It's not set up as a simple "mad dictator is mad", it's more complex and other factors have been mentioned, but it's worth remembering when considering why he crumbled so spectacularly.
Edit: Also, Derj's disease is described as "wasting" i.e. it's gotten worse as time goes on. Stress from leadership probably hasn't helped either.
DOUBLE EDIT: Also, the book seems to indicate a good 50/50 he's still alive. They found his watch, covered in blood, but not him. Interestingly, it doesn't say whose blood it is.
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Do I remember correctly that Heth's portrayal in later chrons had him displaying physical tics and spasms? Like a twitch of the eye or incessant clicking of a pen?
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Tibus Heth and his Caldari State is nothing but a bad copy/paste from the history books, added with mild sci-fi coating. It seems Source is only enforcing this stereotype.
Which again sounds they aren't even trying anymore and have the lazy on them - or this is all still TonyG era crap that just needs to be filtered out before new stuff is written.
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Tibus Heth and his Caldari State is nothing but a bad copy/paste from the history books, added with mild sci-fi coating. It seems Source is only enforcing this stereotype.
Which again sounds they aren't even trying anymore and have the lazy on them - or this is all still TonyG era crap that just needs to be filtered out before new stuff is written.
The EVE Source, from my cursory reading, is distinct and different from TonyG, BUT some stuff appears to carry over, with a few additional details and links to current events.
The base message is that the TonyG stuff is permanently written-in. While there might be changes as the story progresses, it will remain and there will be no hasty burial, retcon, or edit. But, it seems that it will be going in a different direction. What is not clear is where specifically.
MUCH EDIT: Anyone else with EVE source, please do double check and correct me if needs be. Like I said, still just on the skim-read right now.
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Well the concept of economic strain causing an embrace of nationalism and blame the foreigners seemed sound to me with the Caldari. I can just look at today, and the increase of popularity of political parties based on, "anti-immigrant" policies in Europe following the GFC for example to see that it's a trend not just isolated to the history books. I just think the execution with Heth was poor, driven by unrealistic plot magic, and the character itself was just a laughable stereotype of, "I hate all Gallenteans just because," type jingoism. Even given the past history of the Gallente-Caldari, it still came off as absurd to me as Americans somehow spontaneously saying, "Remember the war of 1812!" and then proceeding to roll across the Canadian border to annex Quebec because damn those Frenchies.
I rolled with it once because hey, whatever, the PF is PF and I can make almost anything work with what I'm given by CCP, but right now I'm happy to push anything most things regarding State RP away with a ten-foot pole along with the majority of its adherents. Because I've already come to the conclusion that while I've tried to just use whatever I'm given by CCP regarding the State and rolling with it there's just too much Caldari fanboyism with the faction in my eyes. I went Caldari because I thought corporate cyberpunk is sexy, and instead all I got was inconsistency from CCP and a whole lot of whining from Caldari players who seem to spend most of their time being too emotionally crippled to accept when their special little vision of Caldari isn't supported.
I mean damn, you've just got to sometimes put the OOC opinions of Caldari players side-by-side with the IC opinions of the characters they play and it's hilarious how close they tend to be. Some people have told me I've been trolling the past few months, but I've sometimes wondered if it's really trolling to have meta-gamed people who appear to me to want to be Caldari in real life, because I think it's tragic not being able to separate OOC and IC with your RP.
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Well the concept of economic strain causing an embrace of nationalism and blame the foreigners seemed sound to me with the Caldari. I can just look at today, and the increase of popularity of political parties based on, "anti-immigrant" policies in Europe following the GFC for example to see that it's a trend not just isolated to the history books. I just think the execution with Heth was poor, driven by unrealistic plot magic, and the character itself was just a laughable stereotype of, "I hate all Gallenteans just because," type jingoism. Even given the past history of the Gallente-Caldari, it still came off as absurd to me as Americans somehow spontaneously saying, "Remember the war of 1812!" and then proceeding to roll across the Canadian border to annex Quebec because damn those Frenchies.
I rolled with it once because hey, whatever, the PF is PF and I can make almost anything work with what I'm given by CCP, but right now I'm happy to push anything most things regarding State RP away with a ten-foot pole along with the majority of its adherents. Because I've already come to the conclusion that while I've tried to just use whatever I'm given by CCP regarding the State and rolling with it there's just too much Caldari fanboyism with the faction in my eyes. I went Caldari because I thought corporate cyberpunk is sexy, and instead all I got was inconsistency from CCP and a whole lot of whining from Caldari players who seem to spend most of their time being too emotionally crippled to accept when their special little vision of Caldari isn't supported.
I mean damn, you've just got to sometimes put the OOC opinions of Caldari players side-by-side with the IC opinions of the characters they play and it's hilarious how close they tend to be. Some people have told me I've been trolling the past few months, but I've sometimes wondered if it's really trolling to have meta-gamed people who appear to me to want to be Caldari in real life, because I think it's tragic not being able to separate OOC and IC with your RP.
I'd say present-day Ukraine, while not very similar, is probably a better place for an analogy than Quebec.
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Dystopian corporate intrigue was indeed cool while it lasted. Hopefully we will eventually start seeing more of that again.
The rise of dystopian national socialist state is edgy dark storytelling and it has lots potential, but it would've been nice to not have a bad copypaste of history with a bad deus ex machina to make it happen. Instead of putting some effort into unique interesting reasons and characters . They went for the easy way out, that's my main gripe with it.
To a degree I can understand the everlasting annoyance of the hardcore caldari fancore as well. The change from dystopian corporate cyberpunk to dystopian national socialist state wasn't gradual, it was pretty much a flip of the switch. Especially considering how slow EVE lore used to develop, and how subtle it used to be. "Oh you wanted to play shady corporate dealings and hostile takeovers for Arasaka to take over Kendachi. Nope! You're now playing Spaceballs the dystopian state!"
I mean we get it CCP, you wanted to portray Heth as spacehitler but did really have to give him spaceparkinsons too so that we wouldn't just accidentally run away with our imagination and pretend he is something more than just a really bad cardboard cutout of a historical figure. So much wasted storytelling potential :/ Then again I could just wear my Zerofucksgiven hat and go with "if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing." :yar:
Anyhow, maybe they will manage to fix it make it interesting again. I mean, looks like they've almost managed to unfuck the Minmatar from what I'e seen and heard of recent story droplets (I am reserving my judgement until I read the book). Would be cool if they'd find a nice balance of corporate intrigue and national socialist state. That remains to be seen.
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Dystopian corporate intrigue was indeed cool while it lasted. Hopefully we will eventually start seeing more of that again.
The rise of dystopian national socialist state is edgy dark storytelling and it has lots potential, but it would've been nice to not have a bad copypaste of history with a bad deus ex machina to make it happen. Instead of putting some effort into unique interesting reasons and characters . They went for the easy way out, that's my main gripe with it.
To a degree I can understand the everlasting annoyance of the hardcore caldari fancore as well. The change from dystopian corporate cyberpunk to dystopian national socialist state wasn't gradual, it was pretty much a flip of the switch. Especially considering how slow EVE lore used to develop, and how subtle it used to be. "Oh you wanted to play shady corporate dealings and hostile takeovers for Arasaka to take over Kendachi. Nope! You're now playing Spaceballs the dystopian state!"
I mean we get it CCP, you wanted to portray Heth as spacehitler but did really have to give him spaceparkinsons too so that we wouldn't just accidentally run away with our imagination and pretend he is something more than just a really bad cardboard cutout of a historical figure. So much wasted storytelling potential :/ Then again I could just wear my Zerofucksgiven hat and go with "if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing." :yar:
Anyhow, maybe they will manage to fix it make it interesting again. I mean, looks like they've almost managed to unfuck the Minmatar from what I'e seen and heard of recent story droplets (I am reserving my judgement until I read the book). Would be cool if they'd find a nice balance of corporate intrigue and national socialist state. That remains to be seen.
Yeah, they did improve Minmatar. Parliament becoming the Executors for the Tribal leaders of the Assembly, Minmatar regaining their pride and identity, an exodus of free Matari back into the Republic, etc etc. Not much mentioned about social works though or maybe I just need to reread Source again.
Still, my character will still have reservations about becoming full time Republic citizen again. Paranoia of a frontiersman, you know?
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Anyhow, maybe they will manage to fix it make it interesting again. I mean, looks like they've almost managed to unfuck the Minmatar from what I'e seen and heard of recent story droplets (I am reserving my judgement until I read the book). Would be cool if they'd find a nice balance of corporate intrigue and national socialist state. That remains to be seen.
Actually they killed Midular and made the Republic go Leroyy on a Moros fleet at point blank range in Colelie because those froth at the mouth savage Minmatar couldn't have it their way.
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Anyhow, maybe they will manage to fix it make it interesting again. I mean, looks like they've almost managed to unfuck the Minmatar from what I'e seen and heard of recent story droplets (I am reserving my judgement until I read the book). Would be cool if they'd find a nice balance of corporate intrigue and national socialist state. That remains to be seen.
Actually they killed Midular and made the Republic go Leroyy on a Moros fleet at point blank range in Colelie because those froth at the mouth savage Minmatar couldn't have it their way.
You mean the extreme militant faction within the Republic military.
And point blank a Moros fleet is just goshdang stupid. At least that was acknowledged in Source.
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[...]It would've been nice to not have a bad copypaste of history with a bad deus ex machina to make it happen. [...]
The most amazing detail of TEA, by the way. The unholy attack on CONCORD had to happen so that the strike force was able to breach Fed space without getting totally CONCORDed because it was against space laws to change the borders, etc, etc, yet the Fed still had an amazing border security system (that totally got turned off and why the fuck do you need that if you cyno in your shit anyways) nonetheless, and even in the time afterwards, CONCORD didn't so much as raise a finger to return to the status quo. Amazingly enough, there was that wierd amarr guy leading an army into Solitude (or wherever), without CONCORD ever being a problem. Then we got the Caldari Prime v 2.0 where CONCORD just showed up to say "HAVE FUN KILLING EVERYONE GUYS!", and then, of course, the Minmatar-Gallente thing, where CONCORD was apparently not a problem, too.
Inconsistency piled on inconsistency. And I get that TonyG tried to incorporate the "impossible to defeat"-CONCORD mechanic into his story, because it's in the game, but welp...
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[...]It would've been nice to not have a bad copypaste of history with a bad deus ex machina to make it happen. [...]
The most amazing detail of TEA, by the way. The unholy attack on CONCORD had to happen so that the strike force was able to breach Fed space without getting totally CONCORDed because it was against space laws to change the borders, etc, etc, yet the Fed still had an amazing border security system (that totally got turned off and why the fuck do you need that if you cyno in your shit anyways) nonetheless, and even in the time afterwards, CONCORD didn't so much as raise a finger to return to the status quo. Amazingly enough, there was that wierd amarr guy leading an army into Solitude (or wherever), without CONCORD ever being a problem. Then we got the Caldari Prime v 2.0 where CONCORD just showed up to say "HAVE FUN KILLING EVERYONE GUYS!", and then, of course, the Minmatar-Gallente thing, where CONCORD was apparently not a problem, too.
Inconsistency piled on inconsistency. And I get that TonyG tried to incorporate the "impossible to defeat"-CONCORD mechanic into his story, because it's in the game, but welp...
I think the visit of the Minmatar-Thukker Fleet (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCVyU4RbFEg) before the destruction was even worse (What I call the "terrorist fly by"). I still dont get why he had included this part? There was zero important dialog in this scene, he could include all the plot points in other parts of TEA. Moreover that it made CONCORD look like a punish of morons (Imagine 9/11, with an early waring, but without any reaction from the US... Where the guys made a fly by around the towers in may (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC110#Yulai_Incursion), with no reaction from the government. And afterwards, months (https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC110#110.06.10) later a terrorist act in the same place.).
I would rather be subject to the rule of?
Answer: robotic, naive, religious, inflexible Synthia 1 :D
Edit: Links