Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: Invelious on 24 Jun 2010, 17:25
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I just started reading this book, and before I get to the heart of it, I was hoping to get some reviews on it from the player community. Your thoughts please.
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I liked it. It's more of an infodump than a story, in many ways, but the two primary threads in it do work.
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I thought there were sections which read like the story team got together and said "Now you need to write a bit where you give exposition about this part of Eve" which, while interesting in some ways, was also some of the less convincing writing.
I also felt the Matari got hard done by. :(
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So far, it seems blood raiders protect Sani Sabik communities and hold them in high regard, at least that is what I am gathering from the begining chapters. Is this standard? Because, I thought the Sani Sabik looked down on the blood raiders.
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I loved it, but I am an Angel / pirate fangirl so I might be a bit biased. Still the infodump style and extra explanations were very enjoyable. Some things I already knew, but a little refresher isn't bad. My boyfriend, who despite disliking EVE gameplay does like the game world is now reading the book as well, and for him those bits are handy. Not to mention this makes the book easy to get into for newer players. So yeah, keep reading, it is worth your time.
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So far, it seems blood raiders protect Sani Sabik communities and hold them in high regard, at least that is what I am gathering from the begining chapters. Is this standard? Because, I thought the Sani Sabik looked down on the blood raiders.
Blood Raiders are a sort of Sani Sabik. There are some other Sani Sabik that are aligned with them, and some who think they've strayed from the path or whatever, I imagine.
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Blood Raiders bear approximately the same relationship to the Sani Sabik that the Vikings did to Norse cultures a millennium ago. Or analogous, at any rate.
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Blood Raiders bear approximately the same relationship to the Sani Sabik that the Vikings did to Norse cultures a millennium ago. Or analogous, at any rate.
You mean the difference between a peaceful Sani Sabik trader and a Blood Raider is how good the defences are?
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Blood Raiders go out and raid. Sani Sabik stay home and do whatever...
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...bake cookies.
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...bake cookies.
Yeah. Sani Sabik as Middle America was "wat"
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Blood Raiders go out and raid. Sani Sabik stay home and do whatever...
And in some Norse cultures, as I understand it (Iceland, Norway, and Denmark at least), some young men would go off raiding for a season or three, make some cash, come home, settle down get married and become a farmer.
Are you suggesting that there is that cross-over? Since I could actually see the Blood Raiders being a young man's game, and that there'd be more support in the Sani Sabik civilian society for the Bloodraiders if there's a cadre of middle-aged civilians who spent a couple of seasons raiding to get their start in life, and are now at home telling tales of daring adventures (skipping all the bits that went wrong).
I'm just not sure it's supported in the book.
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Blood Raiders go out and raid. Sani Sabik stay home and do whatever...
And in some Norse cultures, as I understand it (Iceland, Norway, and Denmark at least), some young men would go off raiding for a season or three, make some cash, come home, settle down get married and become a farmer.
Are you suggesting that there is that cross-over? Since I could actually see the Blood Raiders being a young man's game, and that there'd be more support in the Sani Sabik civilian society for the Bloodraiders if there's a cadre of middle-aged civilians who spent a couple of seasons raiding to get their start in life, and are now at home telling tales of daring adventures (skipping all the bits that went wrong).
I'm just not sure it's supported in the book.
There was a dude who had an uncle, the uncle I think is mentioned as having done "things" in his youth.
That sort of thing?
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There was a dude who had an uncle, the uncle I think is mentioned as having done "things" in his youth.
That sort of thing?
Actually, now that you remind me, yeah, exactly that. Thanks.
Hmm, interesting.
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Ummm, Blood Raiders.
Of course their mentality and lifestyle may have something in common with historical cultures that had same practices.
Like mongolians raiding the Chinese (until they built the damn wall to keep them out.)
Like african tribes raiding each other for slaves and selling them to the white devils for shinies.
Like vandals going to Rome and sack it for the hell of it.
But based on Norse culture?
Other than the raiding aspect does not really hold water.
When talking about any pirate faction you have to keep in mind that they've had to develop into something more than PvP hungry gate campers just because of the fact that they are not supported by the infrastructure of the Empires unlike the capsuleers are.
You are bound to find Blood Raider doctors that put bandages on the scraped knees of Blood Raider kids that have fallen down while playing football on some planet in the ass end of nowhere.
You can also find Cartel pilots crying at a Cartel speakeasy where a Cartel singer sings about how hard the life of a drug peddling serial killer can be.
The difference between the 'pirate' factions and the 'real' factions is their moral standards, nothing else.
There is farmers in all of the factions, as there is people working in bakeries, factories, hospitals and schools.
None of them are made out of 100% bad ass.
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Not "based on Norse culture". "Approximately the same relationship"... have you read TBL? If so, I'm happy to keep discussing it; if not, please read the first few chapters. If you still disagree then, by all means, let's talk about it. :)
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Need to get this book, but I think what you guys are trying to understand is the difference between:
Sani Sabik - an overarching faith that believes in dominance of power, leading ones own through adversity to success, and the desire for eternal life among many of the more powerful.
Blood Raiders - a physical and brutal branch of Sani Sabik that have taken power through physical strength and mysticism to its ultimate incarnation.
Blood Raiders are as much a cult of Sani Sabik, as they are a criminal organisation and business empire. So while you get Sani Sabik lifers, many may express and go on to join the Blood Raiders and their beliefs. These would then use their new-found tendency for combat to defend their non-blood raider, sani sabik families.
For an in game RP representation, look at Celes, Meb and Revan.
Revan is an elite Sani Sabikist who doesn't follow Blood Raider beliefs and tends to get others to do her combat for her, while she persues mysticism and power.
Meb, who's an outright Blood Raider and prefers to get her own hands bloody and follows the Blood Raider Covenant arm of Sani Sabik beliefs.
Celes, who's more Sani Sabik but tends towards Blood Raider actions and belief, is a Sani Sabik doctor and medical practitioner... who sometimes lets the Blood Raider in her get involved... especially with dissections.
You'd have to check with the players of these chars, but this theme trends pretty accurately through PF iirc
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The difference between the 'pirate' factions and the 'real' factions is their moral standards, nothing else.
There is farmers in all of the factions, as there is people working in bakeries, factories, hospitals and schools.
None of them are made out of 100% bad ass.
Sparta.
The historical nation, not the bullshit from 300. Horrible social mores and societal standards for what it took not to be abandoned to the elements.
All their farmers came from other city-states and were held in thrall or politically dominated, and thus not 'Spartans.'
I was with you until the bolded part, mind.Need to get this book, but I think what you guys are trying to understand is the difference between:
Sani Sabik - an overarching faith that believes in dominance of power, leading ones own through adversity to success, and the desire for eternal life among many of the more powerful.
Blood Raiders - a physical and brutal branch of Sani Sabik that have taken power through physical strength and mysticism to its ultimate incarnation.
Blood Raiders are as much a cult of Sani Sabik, as they are a criminal organisation and business empire. So while you get Sani Sabik lifers, many may express and go on to join the Blood Raiders and their beliefs. These would then use their new-found tendency for combat to defend their non-blood raider, sani sabik families.
For an in game RP representation, look at Celes, Meb and Revan.
Revan is an elite Sani Sabikist who doesn't follow Blood Raider beliefs and tends to get others to do her combat for her, while she persues mysticism and power.
Meb, who's an outright Blood Raider and prefers to get her own hands bloody and follows the Blood Raider Covenant arm of Sani Sabik beliefs.
Celes, who's more Sani Sabik but tends towards Blood Raider actions and belief, is a Sani Sabik doctor and medical practitioner... who sometimes lets the Blood Raider in her get involved... especially with dissections.
You'd have to check with the players of these chars, but this theme trends pretty accurately through PF iirc
Nah, let's not look at Revan, whose behavior is too much in the vein of oddball trends and petty grasping and social climbing to really be representative. The character has become the poster child for stupid, opiate-of-the-masses religion, something akin to the cheap theatrics of faith healers.
Let's look at Leon instead. Leon claims to be of the Sani Sabik 'faith,' when an Amarrian confronts him with penetrating questions, but under scrutiny will mainly say that the rituals were of secondary import to him - what was central was the attempt to fulfill the ideal of being the best in the cluster, the most capable in the whole of reality, at whatever he sought to accomplish.
This comes straight out of the True Amarr ideal about the Chosen of God, and is likely found in the central components of many Sani Sabik faiths with any degree of structure to them, as Meb mentioned - 'strength through adversity' is one element, 'control of the lesser faithful' is another, and 'seeking the panacea' yet another. However, given the age and disparity of the Sani Sabik religious phenomenon, we can only be lead to believe that since the Blood Raider Covenant does not play a central role in a unified Sani Sabik 'faith,' and the Empire actively opposes the spread and continued existence of such cults, these groups of believers exist disparately all over Amarr, Khanid, Ammatar, and Blooder space, as well as throughout any sufficiently large and varied exclaves of the Amarr faith elsewhere in New Eden. So they're gonna be different, but for a few tendencies and core beliefs.
The last element I mentioned above, the panacea, is a placeholder for whatever substance or effect the Sani Sabik and Blood Covenant seek to create, find, or instill for themselves spiritually when they're out doin' their thing. The blood that the Raiders are after is used for something, usually something to do with 'maintaining purity,' which is a spiritual conception concerned with the divine. A similar aim likely exists in many Sani Sabik cults as well, or where would the Blood Raiders get their tendency for it?
Anyway, yeah, if there's easily tens of thousands of various communities of Sani Sabik worshippers that make up the widespread Sani Sabik cults, there's room for plenty of them to be taken under the wing of the Blooders, in Delve or elsewhere - if only because the Blooders are closer to the Sani Sabik cults in terms of their belief systems than to the mainstream Amarrian faith.
Oh, and who else are they gonna recruit from? You can't always go with some Imperial marine suffering from PTSD and the more sociopathic priests.