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Archives => Katacombs => Topic started by: Laerise [PIE] on 18 Apr 2013, 02:38

Title: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Laerise [PIE] on 18 Apr 2013, 02:38
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1969-054-16,_Reinhard_Heydrich.jpg/220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1969-054-16,_Reinhard_Heydrich.jpg)

Heidrich, eh?

If you want to avoid "lol nazi" comments swapping that name for something less inflammatory might be a good idea...  :|
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Nicoletta Mithra on 18 Apr 2013, 03:47
I have to agree with Laerise there, you might want to change that name.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Ember Vykos on 18 Apr 2013, 05:46
Curiosity speaking here, but honestly what the fuck does his last name matter? Until Laerise brought it up I never even thought of googling to see what nazi may have shared a last name with a fictional character.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Natalcya Katla on 18 Apr 2013, 07:21
Curiosity speaking here, but honestly what the fuck does his last name matter? Until Laerise brought it up I never even thought of googling to see what nazi may have shared a last name with a fictional character.

To those who recognize the name it may matter in terms of first impressions, obviously. Reinhard Heydrich was hardly just any Nazi, either. It's almost the equivalent of naming one's character Himmler. So it's definitely an encumbered name.

Once the characters build solid reputations of their own, this will matter less and less, I expect. After all, there is somebody called "Mangala" running for CSM. Still, I think it's fair to point out that some character names can and probably will color some first impressions and come across as tasteless to some people. Whether or not to heed such objections is entirely up to the players, of course.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: kalaratiri on 18 Apr 2013, 09:52
Curiosity speaking here, but honestly what the fuck does his last name matter? Until Laerise brought it up I never even thought of googling to see what nazi may have shared a last name with a fictional character.

To those who recognize the name it may matter in terms of first impressions, obviously. Reinhard Heydrich was hardly just any Nazi, either. It's almost the equivalent of naming one's character Himmler. So it's definitely an encumbered name.

Once the characters build solid reputations of their own, this will matter less and less, I expect. After all, there is somebody called "Mangala" running for CSM. Still, I think it's fair to point out that some character names can and probably will color some first impressions and come across as tasteless to some people. Whether or not to heed such objections is entirely up to the players, of course.

Mangala is a gentleman, and I will have no bad words spoken of him ;)

(seriously, he's a great guy. Hilarious on comms and an excellent FC)
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: kalaratiri on 18 Apr 2013, 10:16
Lastly, the name Heidrich was randomly chosen from a list of names from the surname website hosted by behindthename.com with no prior knowledge of who the real Heydrich was or what he did back when Nazi Germany existed. I also have absolutely zero intent of trashing a 6 million SP industrial toon for the sake of pleasing anybody who thinks the name is inflammatory or offensive in any way. If you are offended, please note that this is not the 1940's, my name is not Reinhard, and I invite you to get past it. Jokes referencing my last name don't bother me and my reputation will speak for itself as it develops within this community.

Good answer.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 18 Apr 2013, 10:19
Lastly, the name Heidrich was randomly chosen from a list of names from the surname website hosted by behindthename.com with no prior knowledge of who the real Heydrich was or what he did back when Nazi Germany existed. I also have absolutely zero intent of trashing a 6 million SP industrial toon for the sake of pleasing anybody who thinks the name is inflammatory or offensive in any way. If you are offended, please note that this is not the 1940's, my name is not Reinhard, and I invite you to get past it. Jokes referencing my last name don't bother me and my reputation will speak for itself as it develops within this community.

Good answer.

Stop stealing my words, Kala.

Good stance to take, Gervas - I get a lot of shit about Morwen's surname being shared with a popular anime. Totally different level, but a similar issue, so I know how you feel there.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Natalcya Katla on 18 Apr 2013, 10:37
Mangala is a gentleman, and I will have no bad words spoken of him ;)

(seriously, he's a great guy. Hilarious on comms and an excellent FC)

That just illustrates my point, then.  ;)

And Gervas, I agree that that's a good answer.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Nicoletta Mithra on 18 Apr 2013, 17:01
Lastly, the name Heidrich was randomly chosen from a list of names from the surname website hosted by behindthename.com with no prior knowledge of who the real Heydrich was or what he did back when Nazi Germany existed. I also have absolutely zero intent of trashing a 6 million SP industrial toon for the sake of pleasing anybody who thinks the name is inflammatory or offensive in any way. If you are offended, please note that this is not the 1940's, my name is not Reinhard, and I invite you to get past it. Jokes referencing my last name don't bother me and my reputation will speak for itself as it develops within this community.

Good answer.

Stop stealing my words, Kala.

Good stance to take, Gervas - I get a lot of shit about Morwen's surname being shared with a popular anime. Totally different level, but a similar issue, so I know how you feel there.

Thing is, Amarr already are treated like they are child molesting space catholic racists. With a name like that you're inviting it, really. First impressions matter and you will probably get frustrated by a lot of things when interaction with those that oppose the Empire, but if you don't have a problem with them - potentially - taking that cheap shot at you again and again, then everything is cool.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Gervas Heidrich on 18 Apr 2013, 17:15
Thing is, Amarr already are treated like they are child molesting space catholic racists. With a name like that you're inviting it, really. First impressions matter and you will probably get frustrated by a lot of things when interaction with those that oppose the Empire, but if you don't have a problem with them - potentially - taking that cheap shot at you again and again, then everything is cool.

1. Please do not place so much stock on last names for first impressions. It's bad for your health.
2. Please do not presume to know what will probably frustrate me.
3. Opposition is what makes EVE go round.
4. Thank you for re-iterating what I've already said about the lack of care I already had in someone's need to cheap shot me.

That is all.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Jekaterine on 18 Apr 2013, 18:32
Thing is, Amarr already are treated like they are child molesting space catholic racists. With a name like that you're inviting it, really. First impressions matter and you will probably get frustrated by a lot of things when interaction with those that oppose the Empire, but if you don't have a problem with them - potentially - taking that cheap shot at you again and again, then everything is cool.
I think Heidrich invokes Heydrich as much as Mithra (Which in itself is a very loaded name if you look at it as spelled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraic_mysteries). That said it does invoke a connection with Mitre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitre), especially as in Swedish it's spelled Mitra.
So with a name like your own you're inviting the stereotype of child molesting space catholic racists, just as much as he is, if not more.
So I hope you're cool with inviting cheap shots again and again?
Cause I sure am cool with that.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Samira Kernher on 18 Apr 2013, 19:03
If it was Hitler, Himmler, or Goebbels, I'd agree with the comments. But Heidrich to me isn't as strongly referential as the others... I had to look it up before I knew who it was, and I do a fair amount of WW2 reading. To me at least, it just doesn't evoke anything in the way those other three names would, and it's still commonly used in today's world.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Esna Pitoojee on 18 Apr 2013, 19:09
I approve of your response, Gervas, and think it'd be something handy to keep on hand if anyone goes rabble rabble at you about it. For what it's worth, I (despite studying WWII history a lot) did not make the connection until it was pointed out.

At the extreme, if you do begin to become concerned about it, one option I have heard people taking before is petitioning themselves as a preemptive measure so that your defense is already on record should any further petitions come in from others.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Gervas Heidrich on 18 Apr 2013, 19:16
I really do appreciate the positive responses in my defense about my last name. But at this point, this issue is becoming something of a petty grade school dispute over the association of a single letter in my name. Can we please just put a cap on this before this starts becoming a flame fest? I see someone here has already taken the liberty of sticking the kindling under the pot. I mean seriously. Why is this even an issue?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Creep on 18 Apr 2013, 19:25
Why is everyone so upset? Heidrich was a competent general and fairly decent guy, given his loyalties. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Heidrich)
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Lyn Farel on 19 Apr 2013, 02:11
I made the link at first, but I don't really care. I took it as face value as (almost) anything and it's a pretty common name too (see, 2 of them in WW2).

I would be more concerned about someone using Dracula as a last name for a blooder, tbh.


Good luck in your endeavours in any case. Nice to see new Amarr players.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Laerise [PIE] on 19 Apr 2013, 03:23
I really do appreciate the positive responses in my defense about my last name. But at this point, this issue is becoming something of a petty grade school dispute over the association of a single letter in my name. Can we please just put a cap on this before this starts becoming a flame fest? I see someone here has already taken the liberty of sticking the kindling under the pot. I mean seriously. Why is this even an issue?

Thank you.

Well the main "issue" people are having is not with your choice is that Heydrich was instrumental in the indiscriminate mass murder of millions of jews, roma, sinthi, disabled people and political opponents.

The real issue is your lack of consideration for the offended parties in this case.

And, no Aldrith, I do not think so.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Katrina Oniseki on 19 Apr 2013, 03:44
The real issue is your lack of consideration for the offended parties in this case.

You of all people should think twice before saying that to anybody here.

Short of an apology and plea to ignorance (both optional), I don't think Gervas has any obligation or responsibility to cater to others over a character name.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Ascentior on 19 Apr 2013, 06:42
I think you will find that name is much more memorable to some societies. Not something they will have to google to notice the link.
As for having no obligation, it depends on scale. If he happens to offend enough people, CCP would help to remove any obligation along with the name.
I personally am not offended, doesn't mean someone who may be has any less right to be.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Creep on 19 Apr 2013, 08:16
I really do appreciate the positive responses in my defense about my last name. But at this point, this issue is becoming something of a petty grade school dispute over the association of a single letter in my name. Can we please just put a cap on this before this starts becoming a flame fest? I see someone here has already taken the liberty of sticking the kindling under the pot. I mean seriously. Why is this even an issue?

Thank you.

Well the main "issue" people are having is not with your choice is that Heydrich was instrumental in the indiscriminate mass murder of millions of jews, roma, sinthi, disabled people and political opponents.

The real issue is your lack of consideration for the offended parties in this case.

And, no Aldrith, I do not think so.
Once again, wrong name. People do not spell Reinhard's name with an I. There is a reason for that, and that is because his name was never spelled with an EI, but with the EY. If we were all communicating via skype, I'd understand your offense, but this is text and you're starting to leave the realm of righteous indignation, and starting to veer off into slandering an otherwise blameless name.

The Nazi Richard Heidrich was a Luftwaffe General/Fallschirmjäger. He's never (to my knowledge) been accused of war crimes or even wartime atrocity (though I'm not sure if his battalion was involved in civilian shootings during the battle of Crete). He was instrumental in the development of paratrooper tactics, and was a very able commander.

Reinhard Heydrich was Hitler's go-to psychopath (because even Hitler needed someone to inspire him, apparently), and is for some reason not as well known as Himmler or Goering. He was an all-around monstrosity, to the point that he was assassinated by the allies halfway through the war. He died slowly, btw.

The two last names are pronounced the same in most German-speaking areas, but in some dialects (some Swiss, for example), would pronounce Heydrich as closer to HAYdrich(or HAIYdrich), and Heidrich as HIGHdrich.
Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Silas Vitalia on 19 Apr 2013, 09:33
^

Title: Re: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Gervas Heidrich on 19 Apr 2013, 10:30
Laerise: You seriously need to do your home before you go posting and derailing my thread. Without doing any extensive amount of research into the name Heidrich, you decided to go and find the first radical thing that comes to your brain and associate me with some Nazi German psychopath. So I'm about to derail *you*.


(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8262/8663605644_4b398f2168_q_d.jpg)

Ruth Heidrich, Ph.D

Dr. Heidrich is a six-time Ironman Triathlon finisher, holder of more than 900 gold medals from every distance from 100 meter dashes to 5K road races to ultra marathons and triathlons.  She has completed more than 60 marathons all over the world, including Boston, New York, Moscow, and has held 3 world fitness records in her age group at the famed Cooper Clinic in Dallas, Texas.  She also was named one of the "Top Ten Fittest Women in North America" in 1999.

She is the author of Senior Fitness, A Race For Life, The CHEF Cook/Rawbook, several videos and co-host of a weekly talk show, Nutrition & You on KWAI, Honolulu, Hawaii.

She is a graduate of UCLA and holds a Master's degree in Psychology, and a doctorate in Health Education.  She has also taught in this field at the University of Hawaii.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8261/8663612860_a66aca3e5f_t_d.jpg)

Art Heidrich

A graduate of Stanford University with a Bachelor's in Economics. 5 years experience as an investment banker and has volunteered his time with an organization called "All Stars Helping Kids" which was created to help seed funds to non-profit startups serving low-income youths.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8252/8663638006_8b542b8981_q_d.jpg)

Joerg Heidrich
(An actual German)

Education: 1977 - 1984 he attended Rheinisch-Westfälische Technische Hochschule Aachen (RWTH Aachen University)

Member of the Worldwide Bayer HealthCare Product Supply Executive Team; Board of Bayer US Country Council; Board of Directors of San Francisco BayArea Council; Board Member of UC Berkeley Biotech Automation Council

A recognized leader in the field of Bio-manufacturing, Mr. Heidrich has dedicated over 25 years of his professional career to the management of various manufacturing operations within the global Bayer Group. He currently heads the Global Product Supply Biotech organization overseeing the manufacturing and distribution of Bayer’s $3 billion biotechnology product portfolio.
Mr. Heidrich is known for his passion on leadership, process orientation and operational excellence which has led to numerous outstanding financial achievements and international speaker requests.

---

I dare you to go up to any one of these three individuals and call them Nazi German mass murdering psychopaths. Now kindly shut the **** up with your consideration to others crap.
Title: Re: House of Heidrich
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 19 Apr 2013, 10:41
[mod]Off-topic derailment that was clearly devolving into a series of rule violations - personal attacks, flaming/flamebait, etc.[/mod]