Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE Corporation and Alliance Development => Topic started by: Silver Night on 08 Apr 2015, 23:36
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The purpose of this thread is to find out if people find the idea of an organization advocating greater Minmatar-Caldari cooperation interesting (either as a proponent or opponent) and see if there would be folks interested in participating on whichever side of that kind of RP. As has been observed in various quarters, sometimes the existing dynamics between factions can get old and this seems like it would be a largely untapped direction (though if anyone is already engaged in this type of RP I'd be thrilled to hear about it). Since there is currently enmity between the Caldari and Minmatar, it has conflict without being quite so absolute as, say, slavery. There's a bit of room to work with.
While there would certainly be a corporation to sort of 'anchor' things, participation would not require joining. For those in the corporation, we might do things like PvP a bit in handy low sec, possibly see what opportunities rumored 4-way fac war brings, propaganda (obviously), and perhaps even find shadier things to do - it really depends on if it ends up being more of a prop for RP or if people are actually interested in joining and doing the PvP thing.
For folks who don't join there would be plenty of opportunities to interact, maybe join in some of the corp activities, plus events like meet and greet type stuff to foster relationships between the sides and of course the requisite chat channels. Of course, there should be plenty of opportunity to be in opposition also, though we will have to see if we have the people to actually conduct wars in a useful way.
This isn't really a thread for discussion of the merits of the idea of Minmatar-Caldari cooperation itself. In fact, the idea is that the creation of such an organization would be the catalyst for such discussions, so we can do that then (or start a different thread). However, some of the points that we might start the conversation (and/or violent conflict) with are things like:
- The State historically has a manpower shortage, and is still currently the empire with the lowest population, while the Republic has whatever the opposite of a manpower shortage is.
- There are certain historical similarities, fighting as the underdog against the subjugation of a larger power for their existence.
- The spreading influence of Gallente culture on their respective societies may be another point of similarity. Or at least could be played up. :yar:
- On the Caldari side, there have to be some who aren't happy about the loans accepted by the State from the Empire. Building a better relationship with the Republic is a natural counterweight in case the Empire tries to exert that leverage in an unacceptable way. (For the reclaiming-wary).
And that's just to begin with! And yes, none of these are precisely bullet proof. But if they were that wouldn't be very interesting.
So, what I'm looking for here is just if anyone would find this to be something they'd like to be involved with (on whatever level). Could also use suggestions for a name!
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It has already been done a few times actually, sometimes with relative success (ask Stitcher or the other ones involved in it), sometimes with relative failure (ask I-RED). Which in every case, was beneficial RP wise I guess ?
If you do this I pledge to resurrect the Girani-Fa agreements and do a gallente-amarr advocation. Cause that has never been done. :P
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I am not sure of whether it would be appropriate or possible for Arkon (& the Tribunal) to get involved with this, but if it is you better believe we will be! :D
Regardless of that though I think it is always good to see RP that seeks to model a deep and realistic intergalactic society that isn't locked into the set allegiances that are forced upon us by gameplay mechanics. So consider me an OOC supporter even if IC I can't get involved (though I hope I can find a way to get involved IC too *puts on his thinking hat*). :D
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It sounds very interesting. Two things come to my mind in addition to the possible topics above *brainstorm on*:
Caldari corporations have the need to find a way into the jungle of the Minmatar tribe and family system in order to expand into Minmatar's economy. Something like developing a cultural specific PR and negotiation strategy ("The Complete Caldari Business Guide to Minmatar" :D ).
Another thing is the great gap between a society built on family, tribal structures, and legacy on one hand. And a tube children society on the other hand (41% of all Caldari are born in laboratories?). I havn't thought that through, but it sounds intriguing to me. Could lead to some fundamental issues in both nations' relationship.
Anyway, my character could and would most likely participate in such Caldari-Minmatar related things. But I wouldn't join a corporation dedicated to this topic.
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Considering Kala's current corporation, I would be somewhat interested in this.
:grrr Angels:
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Given Pieter's history of Caldari outreach into all the things, I would be interested in participating.
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(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/077/988/my_body_is_ready.png)
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Given Pieter's history of Caldari outreach into all the things, I would be interested in participating.
Ooooh so that's what you call it.
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Given Pieter's history of Caldari outreach into all the things, I would be interested in participating.
I don't recall this working out with the Amarr in the end. Or was it Sebiestor in that case?
/me flees! . . . . . . . . . \o\
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Given Pieter's history of Caldari outreach into all the things, I would be interested in participating.
I don't recall this working out with the Amarr in the end. Or was it Sebiestor in that case?
/me flees! . . . . . . . . . \o\
Aaaayyyyyyy
/me high-fives Morwen as they flee past him.
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Would be interesting to keep together with how caldari would sell minmatar goods with one hand then sell khanid tcmcs with the other.
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Would be interesting to keep together with how caldari would sell minmatar goods with one hand then sell khanid tcmcs with the other.
sell TCMCs to the Khanid, sell TCMC removal services/products to the Minmatar.
Then sell improved TCMCs to the Khanid.
there's a Philip K. Dick story with this kind of thing in it.
Travelling salesmen sort of thing. A colony is having problems with self-replicating mechanical rodents eating the crops. A travelling salesman happens by, with a somewhat expensive, but just affordable, mechanical rodent trap, yaay, the colony is saved. But oh noes! the mechanical rodents have adapted! the traps are useless! Well, isn't it lucky that another travelling salesman happens by, with a more capable mechanical rodent trap. Lucky indeed, though this trap is quite expensive...
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Aldy would be rather against this for obvious reasons. Unless, of course, the Caldari pressured the Republic to sue for peace with the Empire.
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Unless, of course, the Caldari pressured the Republic to sue for peace with the Empire.
Wait...is that a thing?
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Given Pieter's history of Caldari outreach into all the things, I would be interested in participating.
I don't recall this working out with the Amarr in the end. Or was it Sebiestor in that case?
/me flees! . . . . . . . . . \o\
Both. Actually, his Empire outreach is doing quite well - except for the fanatics at PIE. Decorated Imperial war hero and all that...
Minnie outreach used to be, basically, Kyllsa projects - so that's died a death with Ava's retreat into the snow. Still, hoping that some RPers feel that a mutual congratulation society by friends is less fun than trying to find a point of 'least pain' with nominal enemies.
Frenemies?
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m8 first, learn to quote.
Second, wrong kind of outreach.
ifyouknowwhatimean.jpg
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m8 first, learn to quote.
Second, wrong kind of outreach.
ifyouknowwhatimean.jpg
Fixed. Also, apologies for epic derp.
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Way to ignore the joke, Tuulinen. Gawd. :(
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Both. Actually, his Empire outreach is doing quite well - except for the fanatics at PIE. Decorated Imperial war hero and all that...
I resent that, good sir! We could be the best of friends if you did not cavort with certain zombifying household appliances! And we are not fanatics!
Now burn in His holy light, in the name of Gheinok the First and all the holy prophets that have come after!
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Both. Actually, his Empire outreach is doing quite well - except for the fanatics at PIE. Decorated Imperial war hero and all that...
I resent that, good sir! We could be the best of friends if you did not cavort with certain zombifying household appliances! And we are not fanatics!
Now burn in His holy light, in the name of Gheinok the First and all the holy prophets that have come after!
Cavorting? With Degen or Zanzi?
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BOTH YOU HUSSIE.
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BOTH YOU HUSSIE.
It's enough to make your hair fall out - which you, especially, should be wary of.
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Would be interesting to keep together with how caldari would sell minmatar goods with one hand then sell khanid tcmcs with the other.
To be fair, they actually broke the contract to provide them to the Khanid. I mean, not for moral reasons or anything, just because the Gallente paid more to use them as Transcrannial xboxes. Of course, one might at least attempt to spin it as a moral decision.
Regardless, glad to see there is a bit of interest! I'll probably create the actual corp in the next few days (still need naming ideas!) I have an alt that should work pretty well to found the corp and then go from there.
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I think it is a good idea, anything that increases minmatar RP is probably a good thing at this point and seeing as Caldari RP is fairly strong it could give such a community a good base and I get the feeling not every Caldari wants to be siding with the slavers.
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(still need naming ideas!)
Hmm... would the Organisation for Cooperation and Prosperity (OCP) work/fit? For some reason cooperation and prosperity are the two words that come to mind when thinking on this project. :P
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Given Pieter's history of Caldari outreach into all the things, I would be interested in participating.
I don't recall this working out with the Amarr in the end. Or was it Sebiestor in that case?
/me flees! . . . . . . . . . \o\
:|
Pieter just needs to stop being a naughty boy and hanging out with bad people!
:(
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I'd be willing to RP with such an organization. Tabor is quite a bit skeptical of Caldari bearing gifts. Could be fun.
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:|
Pieter just needs to stop being a naughty boy and hanging out with bad people!
:(
And being married... And talking...
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:|
Pieter just needs to stop being a naughty boy and hanging out with bad people!
:(
And being married... And talking...
Still have a spot with us to run away into ADVENTUUUUUUUUUUURE
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Liam would be...more-or-less opposed to this sort of thing, as it would be a problem for the Federation but also because he suspects the Minmatar and Caldari will not get on quite as well as they might think.
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It's very much possible though. I remember reading Herko Kerghan's Cold Noodles on EON #6. I can't find my copy of the magazine anymore. ;__;
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Liam would be...more-or-less opposed to this sort of thing, as it would be a problem for the Federation but also because he suspects the Minmatar and Caldari will not get on quite as well as they might think.
Let's resurrect Girani-Fa accords like the ebil imperialists we are ! With Quafe we Reclaim, yo.
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I haven't actually read the OP, but based on the thread's title, may I point out that I've been saying for AGES that the Caldari and Minmatar are better, more appropriate natural allies than the Minmatar and Gallente?
If you, Silver, put together something along these lines, I would be very interested, indeed. And most of Havo's shit is in Jita already, too.
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I would disagree with that assessment, but that's a valid point to make.
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I haven't actually read the OP, but based on the thread's title, may I point out that I've been saying for AGES that the Caldari and Minmatar are better, more appropriate natural allies than the Minmatar and Gallente?
If you, Silver, put together something along these lines, I would be very interested, indeed. And most of Havo's shit is in Jita already, too.
I agree, based simply on the fact that the Tribes would love an ally that had no interest in telling them how to build their society and that the Caldari are massively isolationist themselves and don't understand/approve of cultures who are otherwise.
That said...
For some reason the Empires are paired with one huge and dominant culture and one smaller and isolationist culture. The Empire and the Federation are MUCH larger and more powerful than the State and Republic (I get that the Republic has a high population, but it doesn't really use those people well).
For that reason, I've always thought, a State / Republic partnership would get curbstomped by an Empire/Federation partnership - if the Empire and Federation could ever stop arguing about which values they were exporting long enough to actually do anything!
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Empire vs Federation vs Republic and State in a 3-way? Could get even more interesting if you had the Intaki Syndicate, Khanid Kingdom, and Ammatar Mandate also decided to poke at the Fed and Empire. If the Caldari convinced the Khanid to abolish slavery all together they'd maybe win enough points in the republic to convince the Minmatar to form a coalition with the State and Syndicate and a NAP with the Khanid. The Caldari might also have a second Coalition with the Khanid and maybe the Mandate?
Didn't the Starkmanir thing show that the Mandate wasn't as loyal to the Amarr as once thought? I don't know much about them.
The Ammatar have been in a constant state of warfare with the Minmatar Republic since their inception, especially as both sides have expanded considerably over the past decades. The Republic historically had the upper hand, but in recent years the Ammatar have begun an aggressive campaign. It's been rumored they were given assistance by the Caldari in exchange for mineral rights....the more pressing issue that cuts to the very heart of the Ammatar identity - namely the revelation that the original defection was blessed by the Minmatar Elders so that the Nefantar could protect the remnants of the Starkmanir tribe...Traditional education in the region has always focused on teaching the value of the Amarr way of life and the Ammatars' privileged place at their side, and the news that their beliefs about the noble origins of the Mandate may be entirely false have been a crushing blow to the morale of many citizens.
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The current Mandate now is nothing more than an ardishapurite extension. In all but name it's already part of one the 5.
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If the Caldari convinced the Khanid to abolish slavery all together they'd maybe win enough points in the republic to convince the Minmatar to form a coalition with the State and Syndicate and a NAP with the Khanid.
As far as I remember, you've more chance of convincing the Empire proper to give up slavery - the Kingdom embraces an expansion of slavery and slavery for purely economic reasons.
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Also since the Intaki on Intaki prime make up only a small part of the Intaki pop, if they seceded it would not mean any of the character creation for the Gallente would have to be changed.
With military and financial support as well as immigration from the State, Republic, Mandate, Syndicate and Kingdom - Intaki Prime could create for themselves a nice little nation-state in the Viriette constellation and Syndicate region.
Expanding FW into null sec Syndicate could also be an interesting angle for CCP to try.
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If the Caldari convinced the Khanid to abolish slavery all together they'd maybe win enough points in the republic to convince the Minmatar to form a coalition with the State and Syndicate and a NAP with the Khanid.
As far as I remember, you've more chance of convincing the Empire proper to give up slavery - the Kingdom embraces an expansion of slavery and slavery for purely economic reasons.
Yes, but that's the reason the Caldari could do it. It's not ideological, it's about the money and if the Caldari could show them the right spreadsheets the Khanid might give it up.
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Guys, you mustn't forget that while the Caldari values merit, the Minmatar values blood. I am sure that the Caldari won't be thrilled when a manager or an executive in the joint corp is slightly less qualified than all the other candidates but was put there because his brother is an executive himself.
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Aren't there already Caldari zaibatsu?
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Aren't there already Caldari zaibatsu?
Caldari Zaibatsu. I doubt the Caldari likes it when some other culture tries to challenge their monopoly on their Zaibatsu.
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Aren't there already Caldari zaibatsu?
Caldari Zaibatsu. I doubt the Caldari likes it when some other culture tries to challenge their monopoly on their Zaibatsu.
Unless they are just incredibly racist, I don't see why they would have any problem with competition. Hek is already Jita II.
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Aren't there already Caldari zaibatsu?
Caldari Zaibatsu. I doubt the Caldari likes it when some other culture tries to challenge their monopoly on their Zaibatsu.
Unless they are just incredibly racist, I don't see why they would have any problem with competition. Hek is already Jita II.
Since when is Hek Jita II? It's been a crappy place to do any trading since forever far as I can remember, unlike Jita 4-4, or heaven forbid, Rens.
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Hek is pretty cheap. Cheaper than Rens.
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Hek is pretty cheap. Cheaper than Rens.
Something has changed. I remembered things being overpriced in Hek the first two years.
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Hek is pretty cheap. Cheaper than Rens.
Something has changed. I remembered things being overpriced in Hek the first two years.
There's a reason Hek's advertising pretty much entirely consists of variations on the theme of "Hey, at least we're not Rens."
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Hek is pretty cheap. Cheaper than Rens.
Something has changed. I remembered things being overpriced in Hek the first two years.
There's a reason Hek's advertising pretty much entirely consists of variations on the theme of "Hey, at least we're not Rens."
I haven't been in Hek ever since I left E-Uni. All I remembered of it were 'poor liquidity' and 'overpriced'
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That's the "we're not Rens" luxury tax. (Also, SOE L4 mission hub right next door - convenience tax.)
I mean, you're still about as likely to get tetanus just walking around in the station as you would in Rens, but, like, it's still not Rens.
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That's the "we're not Rens" luxury tax. (Also, SOE L4 mission hub right next door - convenience tax.)
I mean, you're still about as likely to get tetanus just walking around in the station as you would in Rens, but, like, it's still not Rens.
I don't do Rens anymore. It's Dodixie when I'm feeling masochistic, or Jita 4-4, partly because it's easier to get trading done in a timely manner there and partly so I can keep mocking any Caldari RPer I can find about their security.
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I'm mostly being sarcastic, Elmund - I just don't normally hang out in the area around Rens, so going there is way out of the way for me. ;)
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I'm mostly being sarcastic, Elmund - I just don't normally hang out in the area around Rens, so going there is way out of the way for me. ;)
Though living in Black Rise (and not undocking in Black Rise), I had come to miss the charm that is the tetanus corridor of a Matari station.
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Though living in Black Rise (and not undocking in Black Rise), I had come to miss the charm that is the tetanus corridor of a Matari station.
Don't forget the thick black smoke pouring into our living quarters from the heating ducts.
:roll:
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While I could picture some traditionnal megas like Wyirkomi or Hyasyoda as zaibatsu in mind, I think you are thinking of the wrong term to qualify Caldari corps : they are more like keiretsu.
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Clearly all Caldari are Tsunderes.
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Alright, I went ahead and did it! The Foundation for Cooperation and Prosperity. IG channel 'Cooperation and Prosperity'. I'll make it its own post in this section shortly, and I suppose I'll probably have to start participating (or at lest reading) IGS again too. Please get in touch with Silver or my alt Saernal Teirild if you are interested in joining/participating/setting something up!