Backstage - OOC Forums
Welcome! => Reception => Topic started by: Soniver on 20 Mar 2012, 08:54
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Hello everyone
How to begin...Well, i am totally new to this game (like 14 days) and i'm already struggling with the direction of my game path. It's not because of complexity and steep learning curve. From what i could seen so far, it seems to me, that almost every career path is about "how to make loads of ISK". I am sick of that. I don't want to hunt for numbers. I don't care about paying this from my own pocket, but i don't want to pay for something that almost yells at me, that if i don't make enough ISK, i cannot play this. I just want to have fun. It's probably hard to explain and understand, but that's it.
Now you could probably say: "get out of this game, it's not for you". You are maybe right, but on other hand, i like it's complexity, i like science-fiction and i like play with others. Surprisingly i had so far played only two MMOs, it was Ultima Online for like 3 years and shortly i had played Dungeons & Dragons Online. So i am mostly single player games user, because they have some sort of purpose or goal and there is some end. However while there is too much freedom, i get very easily distracted by tiny little things like side quests and eventually get bored from it.
Luckily freedom in the EVE is not that case, it's "healthy" freedom. I like the skill system that isn't so much bonding and isn't forcing me to play all the time just to get better. I like the idea of certificates, although it seems to me that nobody cares about it. It's definitely very pretty wrap of the skill system for the purpose of role play. It's much to better to tell: "i have basic knowledge of Cartography", and who is interested can lookup what skills are there hidden.
Anyway, Ultima Online was my first role play experience and i had loved it. It was like another level of existence. Instantly there was no hunt for money, experience points, skills points, whatever...Some people called it "chat with pictures", but it was something more. I think most of you here understand that. So i was thinking that i want to revive that feeling here. I don't want to even think about how many ISK i will make for this and that. I want to be part of something bigger and cooperate on common goals.
What is the most important aspect for me ... i need someone to care about job i am doing. It's not good enough for me to sell the ore to market and go for another run. I could stay with single player games for that and talk about it with my buddies. No, i am in MMO, so i want to play with people who care about what i am doing and to care about how many ISK i made and what i can buy now.
Normally i would hate to be miner, fly to some rock, shoot it for minerals and fly back. But if i knew those minerals are for some purpose, like it would be for manufacturing weapons, that could eventually serve to protect me while mining for more valuable minerals, i would be probably able to do that. Now somebody could think you had just found "cheap working power"... 8) No, sorry, i must let you down. There is one thing that crashes that idea. I HATE repetitive work. I need to be changing what am i doing frequently or i get bored.
Little example of what i mean. Let's say i have certificate for Resource Harvester Basic and i apply to some corporation as an employee. They can assign me such tedious mining job and i will happily do it ... until i claim for example Refinery Foreman certificate. That's the time i want to change my job and start working on refining minerals some other miners are getting ... until i claim Field Technician certificate. That would mean i would like to take Salvager and go pickup trash from the battlefields. Everything in the role play manner of course. Are you getting the picture of what i mean ?
So finally i am getting to the core of this post. I had presented myself here, my wishes and dreams. I want to know, if there is some slight chance for the player like me to find such things here. Please be completely honest with me. I don't want to spend time reading this big forums now to find out that it cannot work like this. If you like, send me to hell instantly and i will never show up here again.
Anyway thanks to everyone who finished reading at here.
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Welcome!
So, the way I see it, there are two ways to look at the ISK grind. Either you can do it for the ISK itself, which in my opinion is pretty boring, or you can say "I just need enough ISK to fund my other activities".
Mining is a pretty bad profession for this. Once you earn enough to buy a hulk, that's pretty much it for you. After that, everything you are making is to save up for a second hulk (for when the first one gets suicide ganked) or just to add to the wallet. Plus, well, it's boring (take it from me, I used to mine as a primary profession).
RP is something you can use to provide a purpose beyond 'I must make more ISKies'. So I have to ask, what are you looking for, as far as that goes?
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Hey, and welcome on board. I'll just give you a very short answer, possibly even with bullet points.
From what i could seen so far, it seems to me, that almost every career path is about "how to make loads of ISK".
The advantage is that basically every career you can take will give you enough ISK to get by. In short: Try things out and stick to what you think is fun.
ISK is mainly means to an end. Whether you spend it to buy new ships to loose in PvP, get that awesome novelty fitting that will end up collecting dust in the hangar anyway, use it to pay mercenaries or simply use it to make even more ISK.
Now, there is often a bit of a disparity between RP and gameplay, since gameplay only covers the in-space aspect. You'll see a lot of characters who literally never undock (usually the evil ones with retractable claws and a chainsaw mounted on the back, just in case), yet claim to do things.
Also, veterans tend to have a lot of Skillpoints, and especially in established industrial corps you'll have lots of characters ( and alts ) with perfect refining skills, for example, since many players strive to be as independant as possible. So your 'Career path' might hit gameplay-reality very hard. This is the reason why doing what you consider fun is important.
On the same note, finding a roleplaying corporation that acts as a corporation - with strictly assigned roles, for example - might be a huge challenge, if not impossible. I'm actually not aware of any IC-corporation that has a hard management structure. It is more efficient to let people do their thing and contribute to corporate goals in any manner they see fit.
Your points about the freedom of EVE are entirely valid and I hope you'll find a way to find your fun in that game. I think this is the most challenging aspect of EVE, all complexity aside. Finding good friends ( and, as I've read and agreed to in another thread, good enemies, too ) helps tremendously.
Well, okay. No bullet points and not short at all. I lied. :D
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Take a look at the corporation section of this very forum. Lots of RP corps are recruiting (including mine! *shameless plug*)
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So, the way I see it, there are two ways to look at the ISK grind. Either you can do it for the ISK itself, which in my opinion is pretty boring, or you can say "I just need enough ISK to fund my other activities".
Well, but there is still limiting factor in skills. I can focus on getting ISK to buy better ship/equipment/panties, but until i am skilled enough, i cannot use it anyway. I have currently about 20mil ISK a i don't know how to spend it. Using it for implants and getting skills quicker could be a way, but it's quite expensive thing and that time boost is not that big.
Mining was mostly an easy example. As i had said, i would be able to do it for some bigger purpose, not just for getting ISK for me.
The advantage is that basically every career you can take will give you enough ISK to get by. In short: Try things out and stick to what you think is fun.
Well that's the thing. In my opinion nothing from all of that is fun when done solo. I haven't seen so far much of real cooperation for some cause, just everybody doing things by self to get more ISK. There is bunch of guides how to play, but none talks about doing those things in group. Of course some obvious situations like big battles are more epic in groups, but that's not really what i am looking for.
Also, veterans tend to have a lot of Skillpoints, and especially in established industrial corps you'll have lots of characters ( and alts ) with perfect refining skills, for example, since many players strive to be as independant as possible. So your 'Career path' might hit gameplay-reality very hard. This is the reason why doing what you consider fun is important.
And that's what i don't understand. Why to play MMO game, when they want to be independent and do everything by self ? It's probably just my angle of view, but i think that skill system shouldn't be so open and allow everybody do anything and make everybody without need of somebody else. Why to play online game than ? Single player game are usually better balanced for one player and made to be fun for one individual.
On the same note, finding a roleplaying corporation that acts as a corporation - with strictly assigned roles, for example - might be a huge challenge, if not impossible. I'm actually not aware of any IC-corporation that has a hard management structure. It is more efficient to let people do their thing and contribute to corporate goals in any manner they see fit.
Yeah, it sounds more like doing another job in game. For majority of people that's really boring, i believe that. I am not saying that i want to be just work force. However i can enjoy to do things for other people if there is appreciation for it. RP gives it sort of shine which i like.
I will try to look in corporation section, but i am not sure how to recognize corporation that cares about it's members and they are not just numbers that are working alone anyway. Well i still have 30 paid days, so i want to give it a chance, but for now i see it in gray colors.
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Msot of the RP corps are generally going to be okay, since we are fairly laid back about the game (for the most part). I dont think that there are any RP corps which demand that you work X hours a day for them, and so forth.
You're doing the first thing right, and that is you are talking to people and trying to figure out where you want to go.
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Msot of the RP corps are generally going to be okay, since we are fairly laid back about the game (for the most part). I dont think that there are any RP corps which demand that you work X hours a day for them, and so forth.
You're doing the first thing right, and that is you are talking to people and trying to figure out where you want to go.
Correct.
Well that's the thing. In my opinion nothing from all of that is fun when done solo. I haven't seen so far much of real cooperation for some cause, just everybody doing things by self to get more ISK. There is bunch of guides how to play, but none talks about doing those things in group. Of course some obvious situations like big battles are more epic in groups, but that's not really what i am looking for.
You can do all that in a group. Some things even scale better with groups, especially mining. A lot of the content of EVE can be done solo with a sufficient ship, so there is less of a group pressure when it comes to gaining ISK.
How it works ideally is you find a group of players you want to play with, then do stuff. Doesn't really matter what, because whether it's PvP, mining, missioning or industry things get smoother when more people are involved. That's why finding the right bunch of people is more important than finding a group of people who do 'favorite in-game activity X', unless you take joy out of doing your thing solo.
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A few things you may wish to keep in mind.
Firstly, ISK. A means, not an end, for most people. I do know one person whose sole enjoyment in EVE is amassing countless billions through a sprawling industrial empire and the contacts and dealing she does through her associates. Her entire EVE-life is running her empire from her station, only undocking if she needs to do something in person, otherwise she chats with her friends, companions and contacts, pretty much treating EVE like a glorified MSN. That works for her. Most others earn ISK only so they can spend it on whatever they want/need. You can keep looking until you find what you want to use your ISK for, if anything. If not, there is little point to gaining it, unless that's the entertaining part to you.
Secondly, skill-points and implants. You have played this game for two weeks by your own admission and see little point in implants as they do to little. I can assure you the higher-up attribute implants atl, are worth their cost. By higher-up I mean the +3, +4 and +5 implants, even a full +3 sett is worth it - over time they will cut your training-time down considerably. This is an effect you will notice over time, however, it might seem insignificant right now.
After 14 days you likely don't have to many skill-points or many skills at high or maxed level. This is not really a problem. Usually when your skill-points and ISK is low, your clones are cheap your ships are cheap. As you gain more of both, you fly your ships or do your things better and it becomes more expensive. Usually you earn ISK faster as time goes by, to compensate for higher costs. Ergo, usually you should have minimal problems keeping your income up to par with your habits, whatever they are. Even if you have little money but skills to fly, say, assault frigates in PVP, if you lose allot of ships and go broke you should still be able to afford frigates and cheaper fittings, for example.
In short, don't worry overly much about skill-points, or ISK. The first ticks by more and more as minutes pass, and ISK is not to hard to get - if you want it and/or need it. Implants can be expensive early on but help out - in the long run. Obviously getting podded every day is a sign not to get expensive ones or any at all.
Thirdly, keep in mind that in EVE you yourself are responsible for your entertainment - the game will not hand it to you, it will hand you the possible means. If you like to run about solo, you are already set. You seem to want others to play with however, so do two things. 1. Figure out what activities you enjoy, and what you don't enjoy. If or when you do that, 2. Find a corp or group that does what interests you. This will require some searching and asking around, but if anything of what you want includes role-play, this is the right forum to ask in.
I'll wish you luck in your search, but I'm sure you will figure out what you want to do in the month you got left, and when you got ideas to try out perhaps you got a few corp names or people you want to get to know.
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No, i didn't meant it like, that i want corp, that demands work X hours. It should more about: "you work a lot, you get bigger paycheck" or "you are slow, you get money for lunch". I think that aspect of getting paycheck is sort of important. Because it creates contact with others. It's not like you do all things by self. It's more about dividing of work. Someone is mining, someone is refining, someone is looking for a buyer and someone hauls it. I am kind a lazy and hate numbers, so it's very hard for me to look for best buyer of the stuff. So when i salvage something i just sell it for the price that is shown to me and that's instant sell.
I think i could enjoy doing Explorer job. Probing for the sites, especially magnetometric or radar and maybe some complexes, explore them and salvage from there what i can. However i don't like fighting much. It could be more enjoyable job if i had some fighters with me who could do the "dirty" job and i could than just salvage/analyze/hack what's around. I am currently training for the Cheetah so i can go to 0.0 systems for the sites to hunt, but again i would need other people with me do the fight. That is what's currently on my mind i would like to do somehow and if that would be under wings of some RP corp that is using salvaged stuff to build things, i could be probably happy and work just for the paycheck.
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Msot of the RP corps are generally going to be okay, since we are fairly laid back about the game (for the most part). I dont think that there are any RP corps which demand that you work X hours a day for them, and so forth.
There are, but naming names might require me to mod my own post for potential flamebaiting. ;) They probably are way out of Soniver's range of ability for the moment anyway due to requirements and such.
There are group ISK-making opportunities for PVE - Incursions are probably the best-known one, but they take a bit of an investment to get started in (like a logistics cruiser or T3) so they're not too accessible to new people right off the bat.
FW might work as well if you can find a corp that runs the FW missions as a group, and that'd offer the potential for PVP.
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See? Now you know that you enjoy, or might enjoy exploration, and you got a plan. All you would need now are some companions to do the other parts of the exploration trips that your not to fond of, and you might well find that in any corp willing to hire an explorer to find sites for them to clear out, for a cut of the profits, or however you feel like doing things.
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If you're interested in exploration without the shooting, some mag/radar sites have no rats that spawn.
On the other hand, if you feel like risking low/nullsec, there's always gas-mining to make boosters as well.
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If you're interested in exploration without the shooting, some mag/radar sites have no rats that spawn.
On the other hand, if you feel like risking low/nullsec, there's always gas-mining to make boosters as well.
There is problem in hisec, that those sites are very rarely undiscovered by others.
Anyway thanks to everybody. I will try to look for some corporation for my exploration future.
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Yes, you need to find some fairly unoccupied systems, which can be a feat sometimes.
I hope you find some people that can help!
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Welcome.
Motivation is the core factor. If you are motivated enough by something, you will not mind (much) farming for the needed isk. You need short run and long run goals. That is how i have worked so far.
Now that I have been more than 5 years on this game though, and have access to potentially almost everything skillwise, and have tried almost everything, and how casual ive become, I do not do much more than RPing now. I have made my time on the game, even if I do stuff here and there sometimes. But you are young and have everything to discover. On the most important thing is to find people with (or against) whom to do it.
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Welcome, and though I have little to offer you on your quest for EVEnjoyment, I wish you well on it!
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No, i didn't meant it like, that i want corp, that demands work X hours. It should more about: "you work a lot, you get bigger paycheck" or "you are slow, you get money for lunch". I think that aspect of getting paycheck is sort of important. Because it creates contact with others. It's not like you do all things by self. It's more about dividing of work. Someone is mining, someone is refining, someone is looking for a buyer and someone hauls it. I am kind a lazy and hate numbers, so it's very hard for me to look for best buyer of the stuff. So when i salvage something i just sell it for the price that is shown to me and that's instant sell.
I think i could enjoy doing Explorer job. Probing for the sites, especially magnetometric or radar and maybe some complexes, explore them and salvage from there what i can. However i don't like fighting much. It could be more enjoyable job if i had some fighters with me who could do the "dirty" job and i could than just salvage/analyze/hack what's around. I am currently training for the Cheetah so i can go to 0.0 systems for the sites to hunt, but again i would need other people with me do the fight. That is what's currently on my mind i would like to do somehow and if that would be under wings of some RP corp that is using salvaged stuff to build things, i could be probably happy and work just for the paycheck.
Well, even though I'm not in an RP corp "per se", us folks in KAIRS (esp. me) would appreciate some of the flavor RPers bring to a corp, and we'd also be a good, no great venue to take your exploration work to the next level, namely living by your probes in the vast unknowns of wormhole space. You'll have good folks to fly with on regular basis, and won't have to worry too hard about ISKies either ;) Recruitment thread linkeh (includes skill/... requirements, if you don't meet these already, don't worry too hard, there's nothing particularly onerous to train there): http://kairos.lostalliance.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=857 (http://kairos.lostalliance.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=857)
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Well, thank you for your offer, but i will pass on this. I don't like this forcing to what i need to train. It sound more like you want there exact same players with exact same skills, which seems to me kind a boring. Power of team should be in diversity, not that everyone can do everything. I had developed my own skill path and i want to stay on it for now.
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Well, thank you for your offer, but i will pass on this. I don't like this forcing to what i need to train. It sound more like you want there exact same players with exact same skills, which seems to me kind a boring. Power of team should be in diversity, not that everyone can do everything. I had developed my own skill path and i want to stay on it for now.
You're pretty free to develop what you want beyond those minimum requirements, and there is a level of latitude built into our minimums as well; however, there are certain things that pilots in our corporation absolutely must have in order to operate in our fleets.
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Welcome to EvE, enjoy the rollercoaster 8)
anyways, most honest and simple suggestion i can give is: join Eve University, it will give you a really important starting point for all, isk, pvp, industry, whatever, people there do the teaching for fun and social aspects.
larger and more complex answer:
pick a racial set of ships (minmatar, amarr, gallente, caldari), any one of them but just one, and work their associated skills and attributes
do all tutorials (seriously, the starting isk they give is pretty good)
do the circle agents
do the newbie epic arc (blood stained stars) make sure you a destroyer to start and near the end you should be able to afford a cruiser.
then you can ask yourself, do i want to become "friendly" with an empire faction? at the expense of being hated by the others? or i just want to roam all the universe at my leisure?.
at this point your choice, which is just mildly important, but not critical, will play at how you make your money and with your money play the game the way you like ;)
isk to asplode in ships
isk to take over the market
isk to bribe people into doing nasty things
isk to declare war against others, griefing them to the ground
isk to fund your industry and research operations
isk to make crazy RP plots and storylines
the fun part is the journey and how you do it
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That's very good summary :) Thank you. However my current path got in the hole, literally :) I am not there alone of course, my friend has the friend, who is running small operation in C3 WH. So i decided to settle in and get some experience from this kind of life. I kind a love it, but problem is, that my char is too young to be able do some serious sleeper fighting, so i am sitting there most of the time without ability to do anything.
I was thinking about EVE University, but problem is that i don't want to leave the WH now. I thought i would make alternate account for the purpose of learning in the EUNI, but they forbid that and want the main char. So i need to make it hard way :)
I am not definitely going on the path of bad guy. I don't have the stomach for that, i am only good at playing lawful characters :)
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You can still scan out sites and mark them for your corp even if your to 'young' to fight the sleepers directly yet. (Hint; you are not to 'young' but your skills determine what ships/mods and so on and this makes it more or less challenging to do so depending.)
There is no "bad guy/good guy" things to do in-game from a player's perspective, (With the exception of targeted, intentional griefing and harassment, ofc.) but there are those things that get you a sec-status hit in-game and so on. If you like free movement in high-sec, you may wish to stay clear of those for now. Still don't mean you can't, say, join a pirate corp and probe out targets for them, so long as you don't shoot them yourself ;)
There is honestly so many options available... you will be fine.
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Well it's not that easy with that probing in the hole. I am there like a guest and not the part of corp. On my arrival the POS destroyed two ships of mine. Now it's not shooting anymore, but i don't have access to the hangar to switch for the Probe ship on my own. Guess that CCP didn't actually expected someone as the guest with access to facilities :)
About that good/bad...yeah it's about the point of view and for me that's everything beyond some established law, even if that law is wrong, but for me it's better to be part of majority than minority.
I am currently training for the covert ops, which takes some time and i don't want to waste it on training some fighting skills i am unable to use effectively. I am bad tactician and worst fighter :)