Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => CCP Public Library => Topic started by: Sentar Dethahal on 14 Jul 2012, 15:30
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Ok, so decided to make a new thread because the other was starting to just be random questions about all sorts of things.
Khanid II is the leader of the Khanid Kingdom, but per the wiki it appears the Khanid Kingdom has rejoined the Amarr Empire? Can someone confirm that? Based on this (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Amarr_(NPCs)), Khanid II is a Heir, but here (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Amarr_Heirs), he is not included.
The reason I bring this up, is that since Khanid II has already blatantly broken rituals, why would the Amarr tolerate him? Ignoring the current Empress, he would be the only person to have done such a thing (and based off of what I have read, it seems the Empress has effectively rewritten history to claim a divine miracle or something). Wouldn't the threat of others following his example far outweigh even the threat of the Minmatar?
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Following the outbreak of the Empyrean War, Jamyl offered King Khanid II to return to the Privy Council, an offer which he accepted. While this has effectively meant that the Kingdom is now an autonomous vassal of the Empire, King Khanid is not an Heir. However, as far as I can tell he can sit on the closed council, meaning he can participate in high-level diplomacy on the same level as the actual Heirs. In matters of authority, he is equivalent to the Governor of the Ammatar Mandate, but in matters of internal planning and diplomacy he may be equivalent to an Heir.
From a meta ooc viewpoint, it's just TonyG flattening the political landscape of EVE to make it easier for people to grasp. From an IC viewpoint, it's a political alliance between the Empire and the Kingdom for mutual protection - and perhaps also a way to secure the cooperation of the Caldari.
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Ok, so Tony Gonzalez was actually part of CCP? And his books are considered canon?
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Ok, so Tony Gonzalez was actually part of CCP?
Yes. CCP TonyG. :|
And his books are considered canon?
Well (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=3036.msg53142#msg53142).... :yar:
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Seriously...should've looked that up before asking I guess.
So sort of canon? Not quite sure what you meant there.
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Seriously...should've looked that up before asking I guess.
So sort of canon? Not quite sure what you meant there.
The books are canon.
Problems include that a bunch of the stuff in the books isn't known or knowable by players, and that a good proportion of roleplayers haven't read the novels. Also, significantly, that the novels changed some things that had previously been canon, so there was some retconning to patch things up.
There is therefore a good-sized proportion of EVE roleplayers who would prefer to agree that the books don't exist, or that (probably my favourite) they're racy "fact-ion": fiction about real people, complete with conspiracy theories and possibly occasion glimpses of truth, on a ground of detail about daily life that's probably mostly usable.
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The Amarr (NPCs) page (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Amarr_%28NPCs%29) is wrong. He isnt a heir, he was and is the King of the Khanid Kingdom. I havent a activ account so I cant comment on the talk page, so if you like you can drop a comment (I had seen it before, but totally forgot it).
About his status.As can be seen here (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC111_June#Empire_and_Kingdom): "As a mark of this union and the return of Khanid II to the imperial fold, the Empress granted House Khanid a seat on the Privy Council in perpetuity. A diplomatic and political deal of some subtlety, the new union between the Empire and Kingdom left the right of Jamyl I to rule as Empress of Amarr without challenge while ensuring the autonomy and independence of Khanid II's territories within the imperial framework. One notable point was that the Khanid seat on the Privy Council did not bring with it Royal Heir status, possibly a compromise necessary to secure the agreement of the Royal Heirs to the extraordinary rapprochement with a man once reviled within the Empire as a traitor, heretic and renegade."
So as status of the Kingdom it is and was still an independent Kingdom, but now in the framework of the "Holy Amarr". As can be seen here (http://community.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3084&tid=4): "While acknowledging the rightful reign of Jamyl I as Empress of Amarr, the Khanid Kingdom will remain an independent nation. It will continue to field its own navy, but will enjoy a pact of mutual protection with the Amarr Empire."
So Khanid II is on the Privy Council, but not an heir. What is also logical, because would he... he would be one day emperor. Why? See it that way.... he is the only heir which doesnt need to kill himself, so has just to wait until one day he has luck :P. Like sitting on river and seeing his enemy flowting by.
About the Kingdom, like already said... it is still independent, both party just got closer together, so that for the FW launch in Empyrean Age patch the partys/blocks are more clear.
Maybe the talk page can help.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Khanid_II
By the way, they can update the page some day, plus the heir page and some other which I ven have forget about.
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Does anyone know the day/timeframe of this new reconciliation?
I should think that for some of us who espouse the ideal of The Greater Amarria > just The Empire, it would be a holiday of sorts.
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Publius linked to the new article, Grae.
YC111-06-07
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Just missed it.... :|
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So Khanid II is on the Privy Council, but not an heir. What is also logical, because would he... he would be one day emperor. Why? See it that way.... he is the only heir which doesnt need to kill himself, so has just to wait until one day he has luck :P. Like sitting on river and seeing his enemy flowting by.
This is more what I was getting at. I figured the Amarr side kind of has its hands full as it is with the Minmatar militia, but if he was accepted back as an Heir. Well, there would be bigger issues to talk about.
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So Khanid II is on the Privy Council, but not an heir. What is also logical, because would he... he would be one day emperor. Why? See it that way.... he is the only heir which doesnt need to kill himself, so has just to wait until one day he has luck :P. Like sitting on river and seeing his enemy flowting by.
This is more what I was getting at. I figured the Amarr side kind of has its hands full as it is with the Minmatar militia, but if he was accepted back as an Heir. Well, there would be bigger issues to talk about.
I see you have left on the Talk:Amarr (NPCs) (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Amarr_%28NPCs%29) a comment. Can do me a huge favour. Can you leave a comment on those pages:
Those pages and the problems are more in the realm of CCP Abraxes.
- Talk:Amarr_Heirs (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Amarr_Heirs)
Reason: Chart has less width, what makes the page easier to read. Content is the same. - Talk:Amarr Emperor (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Amarr_Emperor)
Reason: Dash is consistently a —. It has no "double points", no points before and after Reference, as in the orignal ones. Plus the page has the the subchapter "Succession". Content is the same, but with less stylistic errors. - Jamyl I (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Jamyl_Sarum#The_Seyllin_Incident)
A paragraph/¶ is needed between the 7.7 The Seyllin Incident and the 7.8 Khanid Reconciliation subchapter. - Khanid II (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Khanid_II). The talk page has more content. And is more in the overall look of the wiki.
As for those pages, they are more in the realm of CCP Ginger. So maybe just link the here to the comment. Or leave a comment like: Plz to CCP Ginger because of:
- As can be seen here (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ammatar_Mandate#Foreign_Relations:_Statistic), the hide/show funktion doesnt work.
- As can be seen here (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Khanid_King#Current_Structure_Layout), on firefox the the pictures change their color.
Most likely there is more.... but I cant rember, but if you leave there a comment (or link to here); that alone would be great/awesome. By the way, if you have any question about the Kingdom faction, I would be happy to try to answer them.[/list][/list][/list][/list]
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Absolutely. Before I do, I want to double check though...you want me to basically copy-paste what you wrote on each of those pages?
Glad to be of help!
Also, how do you know which are under CCP Abraxes and which fall under CCP Ginger?
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Absolutely. Before I do, I want to double check though...you want me to basically copy-paste what you wrote on each of those pages?
Ehm yeah, that would be great... or just take a link to my comment here, and drop it there on the pages. Both way are totally fine by me. To what you think feels right.
Also, how do you know which are under CCP Abraxes and which fall under CCP Ginger?
Abraxes is the lonley warrior with the task to get the fiction in order and great new fiction. So he is the man behind the Fiction protal, the immersion project, the chronicles and some of the wiki articles. He also have to fact check the articles on the wiki....etc
Ginger is the "technical guy". He had rework the wiki, new backround new funktions etc... also he has some/alot of other stuff, which I havent in hand right now. So both as some overwork guys, which are have a big pile of work on CCP, with almost no resources.
So Im glad that you do/did it. Leaving the comments. But since Dust is still WIP and they have add alot of stuff there, I dont think we will hear something soon™. It is more just for my soul, that I know at least a comment is drop and I can go to sleep without nightmares. :P
By the way it is time to count how many times someone had made the soon™ joke :P
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Ok, did them all via links to your post. Let me know if I did them right or if you want it changed.
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As I'm writing my backstory, I came up with another question.
Per this (http://community.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=aug03) Khanid chronicle, the Khanid Kingdom, " Trade goods that can’t be directly transported into or out of the empire are carried through kingdom because of the much more lenient trade policies the empire has for them."
Is this only applying to goods with legal restrictions ingame? Or would trading in other locations basically be contradicting empire trade policies?
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So Khanid II is on the Privy Council, but not an heir. What is also logical, because would he... he would be one day emperor. Why? See it that way.... he is the only heir which doesnt need to kill himself, so has just to wait until one day he has luck :P. Like sitting on river and seeing his enemy flowting by.
This is more what I was getting at. I figured the Amarr side kind of has its hands full as it is with the Minmatar militia, but if he was accepted back as an Heir. Well, there would be bigger issues to talk about.
I don't think this is quite necessarily true, as Jamyl, when ascending to the throne, agreed with the other heirs to not enact the shathol'syn on that occasion. So, Khanid isn't the "only heir which doesnt need to kill himself", apparently.
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First thx Sentar Dethahal for all the work. Thumbs up (When Im back you will get some like click on the forum from me, the least what I can do).
About the Amarr NPCs page (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Amarr_%28NPCs%29Talk:Amarr (NPCs)), you can add that the orignal page is also form CCP Ginger see history or here (http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/index.php?title=Year_YC111_June&oldid=78479).
As I'm writing my backstory, I came up with another question.
Per this (http://community.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=aug03) Khanid chronicle, the Khanid Kingdom, " Trade goods that can’t be directly transported into or out of the empire are carried through kingdom because of the much more lenient trade policies the empire has for them."
Is this only applying to goods with legal restrictions ingame? Or would trading in other locations basically be contradicting empire trade policies?
In the past there was a bigger number of Iteams which were illeagel in the Emprie. As for example: insignias, Guns etc.... Today most of this Iteams havent any restriktion, if I remmebr right, was just some laser gun what was illegal in the Emprie and legal in the Federation (other laser are all legal now). So overall I cannt tell you a spezific iteam which is legal in one, but illegal in the other or "illegal but can imported" form the Kingdom. Sadly I cant go ingame and check if Transcranial Microcontrollers (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Transcranial_Microcontrollers) are illegal/"have any penallty" in the Empire; but alos dont think so.
As how I interpret this line is like a Trade-lophole. I have now sadly to make a real life comparison. As in our world there is also trade hurdles. I take one of those as example. The US has in some corners high trade hurdles (taxes, customs, limit of the actual quantity etc....); especially when it comes to superior goods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_good) (like inverstment goods, like machinery etc...). That hits china for example not so hard; you get your 10 buck DVD-player and other stuff still almost in a free trade environment. But hits Germany very hard. It losses/had loss a big market (in the meantime had gain a market in the 90s china, india and eastern europa and final they become the a bigger trade partners). So in the 90 have the EU try to get a foothold in the american market again. And one loophole was that Mexica and the USA have a free trade between each other. So the Eu had just arrange the "Free Trade Agreement between Mexico and the European Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Trade_Agreement_between_Mexico_and_the_European_Union)". Over this loophole have many german "mittelstands companys" (small and medium size) gain again a foothold in the US. Over Mexiko-Texas-USA are running the most exports to the USA (we had even shortly a discussion in german if we supporting some Texas highway projects. Long story short. I can imagne that the Empire is like the USA and had some goods, which are more restircted. Those goods are getting than their fair marketshare tru the Kingdom/Mexiko.
But that is just my interpretation, I have no clue as it actually works or which goods are restricted.
So Khanid II is on the Privy Council, but not an heir. What is also logical, because would he... he would be one day emperor. Why? See it that way.... he is the only heir which doesnt need to kill himself, so has just to wait until one day he has luck :P. Like sitting on river and seeing his enemy flowting by.
This is more what I was getting at. I figured the Amarr side kind of has its hands full as it is with the Minmatar militia, but if he was accepted back as an Heir. Well, there would be bigger issues to talk about.
I don't think this is quite necessarily true, as Jamyl, when ascending to the throne, agreed with the other heirs to not enact the shathol'syn on that occasion. So, Khanid isn't the "only heir which doesnt need to kill himself", apparently.
Tony G. Dont start. You dont like me when Im angry. Dont start with him :P
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On a related subject, what is Khanid II's name?
He's from house Khanid, so presumably that's his surname, but if that's the case what is his first name?
But on the other hand, if he's Khanid II, that implies that his first name is also Khanid. So does he go by the slightly Helleresque name of Khanid Khanid of the Khanids?
Or does he only have one name, like Madonna or Sting?
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Garkeh Khanid 1 (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Khanid_Family).
Thanks Publius.
I'll write more when I have time, lots of good info!
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I prefer Khanid Khanid son of Khanid Khanid.
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On a related subject, what is Khanid II's name?
He's from house Khanid, so presumably that's his surname, but if that's the case what is his first name?
But on the other hand, if he's Khanid II, that implies that his first name is also Khanid. So does he go by the slightly Helleresque name of Khanid Khanid of the Khanids?
Or does he only have one name, like Madonna or Sting?
As Sentar already pointed out. Garkeh Khanid
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Khanid_II#Coronation
"With the coronation he finally founded the Khanid Kingdom; he took the name Khanid II (posthumously naming his father Khanid I)."
I prefer Khanid Khanid son of Khanid Khanid.
I know you do. :P And I know why (see here (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=1078.msg43886#msg43886) :P).
P.S. Sentar no hurray. Everything in EVE takes time :).
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Ok, so now with more time, a new question.
So would you say that IC, I am fine as an Amarrian Holder to trade in other empires? Or would that be degrading, etc? I know this might depend based on background, etc...but with a rather vanilla character would it matter?
(kind of starting to go off topic again, sorry. at least this kind of touches on the Khanid still...kind of)
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Are you a Kingdom Khanid or an Imperial Khanid?
The Kingdom has very open trade policies, and especially keeps a close relationship with the Caldari. It's also famous for not having the official anti-slave raiding laws that the Empire has, meaning that Kingdom slavers occasionally abduct people from other empires and sell them to slavery.
Holders in the Empire probably have more harsh trade rules to deal with, and much more bureaucracy. The Tash-Murkon house is probably the one with the most external trade contacts, and holders under their patronage would likely enjoy a lot of mercantile freedom.
Also, we don't really know how corporations function in the Empire, but Holders would definitely be free to start such and trade through them. It might also be possible for a holder to avoid certain bureaucracy by registering companies in the Federation or the State. Either way, I'm pretty sure that the Amarr would encourage trade with other empires - especially the Caldari who are their allies, to import wealth and export the Amarr culture.
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A question for you: can a podder be a Holder?
"Amarr capsuleers can be regarded to [sic] the same level as Holders and nobles (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Baselining#Amarr_Empire)", but my impression was that once you'd joined the podder programe, and especially once you'd been cloned, you couldn't be a Holder. You might still have loyalties and interests, families and contacts pertaining to your upbringing, but you're stepping outside the Amarrian social structure. Aren't you? :) (Amarrian stuff is not my forte.)
I think of it a lot like joining the church in medieval times, and giving up inheritance claims.
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A Holder could execute trade with entities outside of the Empire. A Holder actually being the one who does the trading himself (as in he's the guy who hauls stuff out of the Empire to its destination) seems far less likely. They'd own the business that did that and might act as the primary negotiator for contracts, but would be unlikely to actually act as the courier themselves.
Holders can be pod pilots. There was (is?) a background choice for Amarr which was "Liberal Holders" implying that the pod pilot was at least born of the nobility if not a Holder himself. There are also Holders in the backstory who are pod pilots, so being a capsuleer does not disqualify you from being a Holder. Hell, the Heirs are all supposed to be pod pilots (I think), though they officially eschew clones to adhere to the Sacred Flesh doctrine. It should be noted that said doctrine does not apply to Holders, only royalty.
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Horatius - Amarr, not Khanid, but was wondering on the differences. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for your answer on both though! I like knowing the differences as I develop the backstory.
Matariki - I think you bring up a good point. Wasn't something I had thought of actually. I was more under the understanding that Yoshito pointed out, with the background choice implying its possibility.
Yoshito - Hmm...perhaps I will officially just be overseeing business..with a full cargo bay...I'll see.
That was kind of my initial thought on Holders and pod pilots. It is an interesting discussion though. Yes, the Sacred Flesh doctrine is one of the things I first looked up when checking for a viable background. Would be a quick way to ruin it if you had to biomass everytime you got podded.
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Ok, so now with more time, a new question.
So would you say that IC, I am fine as an Amarrian Holder to trade in other empires? Or would that be degrading, etc? I know this might depend based on background, etc...but with a rather vanilla character would it matter?
(kind of starting to go off topic again, sorry. at least this kind of touches on the Khanid still...kind of)
No it wouldnt be degrading, there is no problem with that....
See for example: Catch of the Day (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Catch_of_the_Day#Chapter_3). In Chapter 3 you find alos why we all look so old :) Or my bio :P
Horatius - Amarr, not Khanid, but was wondering on the differences. Sorry for the confusion.
As Horatius mention there are many Khanids in the Kingdom, as well in the Empire. Many people missleading the Kingdom as a Khanid bloodline kingdom. So the difference is not the bloodline or status etc.... I wouldnt even say the believe.... It is more a that one site as a more pragmatic approach, do the fact of lacking power and resource. I see it as small state which fights to survive; therefor it hasnt the luxury to be always hundert percent in line.
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Are you a Kingdom Khanid or an Imperial Khanid?
The Kingdom has very open trade policies, and especially keeps a close relationship with the Caldari. It's also famous for not having the official anti-slave raiding laws that the Empire has, meaning that Kingdom slavers occasionally abduct people from other empires and sell them to slavery.
Following the formation of CONCORD and the Kingdom's signing of the various treaties, they ceased direct raids into the Federation and State. However, the Kingdom was still starved for slaves and regularly dealt with questionable slavers who acted outside the law. Finally, the Kingdom carefully watched foreign visitors and, should they break any laws, frequently enslaved the offender as a punishment, knowing there was little recourse against them.
CONCORD law forbids any slaver raids into foreign territories, the same way for Amarr than Khanid. The difference lies in the fact that the Amarr Empire also has the Heideran decree enforcing this as well as a safeguard and a proof of good faith, where Khanid has no official decree of their own, they are just bound to obey to CONCORD.
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Sentar thx again. The stuff got reworked.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Amarr_%28NPCs%29
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Emperor
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Amarr_Heirs (and about Abraxas question most likely yes (but we will never know for sure.... muahhhhh mahhhhhhhh).
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Khanid_II will be in the future.
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I'm more than happy to help.
Actually, pretty impressed on how fast they responded to it. I have never had really long wait times on petitions (my only real dealings with CCP), but when I did ask about some event stuff it still only took a few days or so to get it escalated and answered completely. I figured that the wiki would still have around a week or so to fix stuff...that's pretty awesome.
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Looking at Khanid's portrait, I can't help but wonder: is he so poor that he can't afford a decent toupee?
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Looking at Khanid's portrait, I can't help but wonder: is he so poor that he can't afford a decent toupee?
I'm pretty sure that one's player-created. Never been able to find the character ingame through any searches.
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Looking at Khanid's portrait, I can't help but wonder: is he so poor that he can't afford a decent toupee?
I'm pretty sure that one's player-created. Never been able to find the character ingame through any searches.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92007
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Looking at Khanid's portrait, I can't help but wonder: is he so poor that he can't afford a decent toupee?
This! :D
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There is a new Khanid II page... It is freaking awesome....
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Khanid_II
Tip on my hat for the Mercury-crew and Abraxes.
By the way it would be a good time for CCP to creat a tone with the name Garkeh Khanid, before again a player takes it. :lol:
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Looking at Khanid's portrait, I can't help but wonder: is he so poor that he can't afford a decent toupee?
My first thought was "he and Kyber share a similar aesthetic!"
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Both are fine, dashing figures of masculinity.
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There is a new Khanid II page... It is freaking awesome....
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Khanid_II
Tip on my hat for the Mercury-crew and Abraxes.
\o/