Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Kaleigh Doyle]

Here.

A biotech company founded by the eccentric Todo Kirkinen, the first man to have his mind transferred into a machine. Zainou has from its inception been at the forefront of bio-chemical and nano-mechanical research, its headquarters are described as a combination of a mad scientist's lab and a jungle zoo.

I was also referring to capsuleers when they are cloned. Their memories are uploaded through a network and downloaded into a new body.

[Elsebeth Rhiannon]

Here.

A biotech company founded by the eccentric Todo Kirkinen, the first man to have his mind transferred into a machine. Zainou has from its inception been at the forefront of bio-chemical and nano-mechanical research, its headquarters are described as a combination of a mad scientist's lab and a jungle zoo.

I was also referring to capsuleers when they are cloned. Their memories are uploaded through a network and downloaded into a new body.

Ah right, forgot about the Zainou guy, thanks. Some of this stuff is going on then.

But see the above link for CCP Dropbears comment and the reply for why transmitting "through a network" might actually not be necessary if the PF quantum-coupling mumbojumbo holds.

[Inara Subaka]

Can you find where you read the above, I can only find the following and it reads to me slightly differently?
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/AIMEDs

"On most stations, robotic AI Medical Doctors (AIMEDs, more commonly known as "AI Docs" or just "AIDs") are much more common than human medical practitioners, and much more affordable."

More common, meaning more readily available, meaning commonly used (fairly straight forward logic train the way I see it, but I could be wrong). It's also entirely possible that each human doctor has a number of AIMeds that work under their name instead of solo opperations by the AIMeds, we don't have enough to say for sure, but the idea that AIs are more common in the medical field seems fairly clear the way I see things.

[lallara zhuul]

On most stations.

The paradigm on what is profitable/affordable in stations is quite different on what it is planetside.

Planetside the human workforce is much cheaper, much more varied and much cheaper to sustain.

Specialist automation needs less upkeep on stations in means of space and life support than having a workforce of three different doctors to get a 24 hour coverage, also you do not have to pay the AIMeds, just pay the upkeep.

On another note, even today all medical information that can be digitized and sent to a country that has lower pay, the specialists of that country are used to make diagnosis. Several AIMeds could be overseen by specialists planetside that could contact real specialists if a need would arise. Hell, at the moment they are using robots to do heart surgery, with fast enough communication doctors could do all of the operations from a remote terminals planetside (or from something similar to capsules) leaving the 'medical artificial intelligences' nothing else to do than to gather information from the client and doing a preliminary diagnosis, all the procedures could be handled by trained human individuals. That could even be a good way to get an edge on your competition that only uses lobotomized AIs to cut you up.

[Isobel Mitar]

Can you find where you read the above, I can only find the following and it reads to me slightly differently?
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/AIMEDs

"On most stations, robotic AI Medical Doctors (AIMEDs, more commonly known as "AI Docs" or just "AIDs") are much more common than human medical practitioners, and much more affordable."

More common, meaning more readily available, meaning commonly used (fairly straight forward logic train the way I see it, but I could be wrong). It's also entirely possible that each human doctor has a number of AIMeds that work under their name instead of solo opperations by the AIMeds, we don't have enough to say for sure, but the idea that AIs are more common in the medical field seems fairly clear the way I see things.

Ah, I wondered if you were thinking of a piece of PF I didn't know about.

For explanation, I read the part slightly differently, but I agree there are different ways to interpret it. To quote both the shorter and longer description:

On most stations, robotic AI Medical Doctors (AIMEDs, more commonly known as "AI Docs" or just "AIDs") are much more common than human medical practitioners, and much more affordable.

AIMEDs stands for robotic AI Medical Doctors.

Information from the mission Carrying AIMEDs :

Medical doctors being in such short supply, and thus in high demand, few of them are willing to risk their lives for a less lucrative practice than the one they can run comfortably planet-side. On stations, robotic AI Medical Doctors (AIMEDs, more commonly known as "AI Docs" or just "AIDs") are much more common than human medical practitioners, and much more affordable.

I added emphasis to highlight where my interpretation differed (as opposed to showing the most important points).

I personally subscribe to the viewpoint that majority of populations lives on planets and a minority on stations, and also that most space stations are pretty small places, and not always very safe. (Think in terms of places capsuleers encounter in missions as opposed to the stations capsuleers dock at)

So I assumed the "most stations" described above as having difficulty getting qualified medical personnel "to risk their lives" would refer primarily to the small, backward, unsafe ones.

[Kaito Haakkainen]

On the floor, floating around and over their feet, were cleaner bugs, tiny robotic beetles that swarmed over all public surfaces. Each beetle had feelers that allowed it to home in on dirt and various pieces of gunk. It would hover over the detritus and use a combination of fire and tiny pressure pumps to crack it into pieces, which it would ingest and use to fuel its process. The bugs were cheap, easily mass-produced, and accepted even by insectophobiacs as an inescapable part of station life.

'Mr President,' announced one of the drones behind him. 'The guests have all boarded. Your transport is ready for departure.'
 'All right,' he asnwered, turning to follow his metallic companions towards the spaceport.

One guy got trapped in the laundry room after hours and had to be rescued by maintenance drones.

The young Minmatar passed the mudbrick walls of the terminal with its sputtering praydrones and its ragged rush of beggars,

what a mining operation should be: afrontier settlement, run by people operating equipment rather than drones doing all the work on man's behalf.

Caretaker drones gently helped her sit upright in the bed of her chambers. Servants no longer looked after her when she confronted her demons.

In one ear, the pilots and crew of CreoDron were hearing stories of a new, unknown civilization and in the other, the mechanical drawl of a Federation police drone reading them their rights.

"So even while relaxing in a bar the migration workers took the precaution to give the impression of separation, in case of lurking informers or camera drones."

"He felt directly threatened by Rali's intelligence, and often times humiliated him in front of others by giving him tasks typically assigned to drones, such as cleaning restrooms, picking up after him, et cetera."

[DosTuMai]

There are a few references to AI and drones in The Burning Life.
In such a technologically advanced place as New Eden, wouldn't androids be viable? I'm sure I've read somewhere about Serpentis sex droids.

[Mithfindel]

Pretty sure there are "intelligent" drones guided by expert systems. A whole lot of them might even include some adaptive programming. However, I would assume that the real restricted thing is true machine learning. New Eden has pretty cool processor tech, so an AIMED, for example, might be able to list a patient's symptoms, take a few blood samples and analyze them for the patient's DNA and infections, and then scan the equivalent of a medical manual for possible matches. Of course, usually all of this isn't even needed, and the problem is apparent. (It might be hilarious to the outside observer if not to the patient if the AIMED malfunctioned in those cases: "I burned my hand while cooking." "Please pee on this cup." "Wait, what?")

[DosTuMai]

...(It might be hilarious to the outside observer if not to the patient if the AIMED malfunctioned in those cases: "I burned my hand while cooking." "Please pee on this cup." "Wait, what?")

You've just given me an idea to write in my blag. x3

[Rok-Yuni]

well... drones and androids are specific titles...

Drones are usually semi-sentient non humanoid machines, capable of performing set tasks, and adapting in minor ways to different situations, to take the AIMED example, the medical drone can treat the same injury in people of vastly different proportions, therefore adapting in a minor manner.

Androids are on the other hand semi-sentient (or more) humanoid machines, usually created to perform tasks that are normally performed by a human. Generally these constructs are restricted to places that are at least temporarily too hazardous for humans to operate in. for instance, the crew for Malarthi Behemoth's Freighter bomb.

Other automated systems could simply mean automated production lines (think car factories now, where a lot of things are done by machines with a small number of overseers to ensure things run smoothly) and other such systems. where automation of repetetive and numbing tasks is more efficient and cheaper than using a human workforce.

[Mithfindel]

Due to the topic, people might want to specify whether they use the word "sentience" for "able to feel and able to sense surroundings" or "self-consciousness".or "sapience".

EVE does have sentient (sensing) weak AI, likely programmed with limited self-protection and able to adapt to different problems within its own field of service. However, whether even the Rogue Drones possess strong AI (human-level intelligence) or whether it's "just" somewhat smart adaptive programming running on a self-replicating platform with loads of computing power might be questionable. (Personally, I'd liken them to an ant-hill with access to metalworking, lasers and supercomputers.)

Also, in EVE, "drone" seems to be a generic term for any self-mobile machine (such as the drones we use to cleaning and janitor bots on board stations). Android, of course, is Greek for "likeness of a man", and used for man-shaped machines (currently almost universally man-shaped robots). A robot, in turn, is a machine that can sense its surroundings and autonomously do tasks. (Intelligence isn't necessarily a prerequisite for this.)

[Seriphyn]

Yeah, while the general definition of android might be semi-sentient, might be different in EVE.

The nexus chips required for building faction ships mention...

"This small data chip stores the key elements of a ship's artificial intelligence system, and is used primarily for controlling the vessel's autonomous functions"

Again, I would stress how the use of the word "android" in EVE is recent (Spring 2010) and the illegalization of AI is something older...you know what CCP are like.

[Silver Night]

AI can mean a lot of different things.

Computers that can do very clever things are different from computers that can think for (and perhaps of) themselves. I think that things like AIMEDs probably refer to the former rather than the latter. More Watson on Jeopardy than Data on Star Trek. I think that things can be called 'AI's without it being inconsistent with the CONCORD ban, which seems to be in place to address a fairly specific definition of the words 'Artificial Intelligence'.

[Mithfindel]

Funnily enough, one of the "real" uses for the technology behind Watson is apparently making medical diagnoses. It's not even close to a strong AI. Now, let's have another Watson with thousand- or million-fold computing resources, miniaturized into an android chassis (or a part of it). You get AIMEDs. (Though I'd assume that the central databases would not be on board the customer service unit, just some distributed computing.)

[Kohiko Sun]

What the rogue drones did in We Humans was make a choice between abstracts, I'd say that puts at least that hive in the strong category. They did more than follow a programmed response when being swayed by the Thukker. Whether that was how they were originally made, evolved to that level (even though weak AI shouldn't evolve <.<), or got cross-pollinated with Sleepers... well, who knows?

I see AIMEDs as so weak that they're possibly only good VIs (they're interactive enough in specific settings that you think they're intelligent). They'd not need much to run a comparison of vitals and signs/symptoms against a list of ailments in an on-board medical encyclopedia and select the treatment option connected to it. But, without a perceived bedside manner provided by at least a VI responding to social cues, they're just medicine-dispensing, surgery-performing tools and not really treating patients - vending machines with knives.

Sleeper drones... I've not found anything yet to make it clear to me if they're uploaded minds or strong AI. I'm leaning towards there being both among their various types and quite possibly a mix of both on some individual drone types.

Given how the setting of EVE is, the cluster is doomed if a seed AI is born. Not even Skynet in the Terminator movies (which is the closest example I can think of that people will recognize) was capable of rewriting itself at will; it was only a strong AI. Something able to become faster, smarter, and then using that to improve itself exponentially again and again would be alien in every sense of the word within minutes of, "I think, therefore I am." All you can do then is hope and pray it stays something you can consider friendly or has no way to affect the world around it, but this is EVE; how often does that happen?