The Roden Shipyards Outpost is a popular stopover for Gallente citizens willing to partake in some of the more notorious activities in the Federation, such as gambling, prostitution, drugs and the like.
I raise my voice, and Satan himself is on bended knee. I am the leader of the free world, you impotent little psychotic. I've had the most powerful beings on this or any planet gunning for me for years, and you think you're going to scare me?
President? Do you know how much power I'd have to give up to be President?
* He led the corporations in their selfish revolt against one of the most needed changes in Federation nation-wide organization methods to best combat the union's enemies, prioritizing his own lust for power and corporate greed over the needs of the various peoples.
* His election was not in accord with Federation laws and regulations and his rise to precidency was thus illegal - he is an illegitimate rules in a position he has not earned.
* His corporate methods is known to not be entierly ethical. He has shown he has no problems dealing with shady means if it furthers his own power, regardless of who is the official head of his own corporation, or not.
* There are indicators that says he may be connected to the Serpentis drug sydicate. If true, this would make him a traitor of the higest order, scum who should be sentenced and punished like the criminal drug-pushing friend he would be.
* He led the corporations in their selfish revolt against one of the most needed changes in Federation nation-wide organization methods to best combat the union's enemies, prioritizing his own lust for power and corporate greed over the needs of the various peoples.
* His election was not in accord with Federation laws and regulations and his rise to precidency was thus illegal - he is an illegitimate rules in a position he has not earned.
* His corporate methods is known to not be entierly ethical. He has shown he has no problems dealing with shady means if it furthers his own power, regardless of who is the official head of his own corporation, or not.
* There are indicators that says he may be connected to the Serpentis drug sydicate. If true, this would make him a traitor of the higest order, scum who should be sentenced and punished like the criminal drug-pushing friend he would be.
Counterpoint:
*He led the mega's in a concerted act of defiance against an unprecedented (if technically legal) government takeover of private enterprise.
*His election was legal, even if it was less than optimally executed.
*He's kinda shady!
*He might think the Serpentis are sometimes useful! If true, this would make him awesome!
Yeah, I kind of like him. He seems like the sort of guy who's generally up to some good, but isn't afraid to get his hands dirty, and who's willing to weight practical benefits over ideological purity.
Someone up to something good in New Eden?Good is relative.
Someone up to something good in New Eden?Good is relative.
Well, no, it outrightly says that "The President is the head of the executive branch of the Federal government. In many respects he is the most powerful individual in New Eden".
I'd assume that getting the Intaki Syndicate to support the Federation would be somewhere close in likelihood to the Republic and Orthodox Ammatar forming an alliance. For reference, the Syndicate independent-city-state-space-station model was born because the Fed exiled them into lawless space and forbade them to settle on planets - so they had to settle on orbitals, instead. On the contrary, there is at least one mission where the State is allied with a local Syndicate gang/fleet/whatever - the Caldari are concerned about the Fed once again trying to build a secret stargate in the State, and the Syndicate folks are concerned because the Fed fleet came over for a visit and shot them in the face. As an end result, a State/Syndicate force makes a feint attack on the Gallente, allowing the player to slip by and blow up the stargate (and damn, those things have HP, specially when you're doing the shooting in a frigate).One can argue in favor of the Foiritan/Syndicate co-operation as follows:
Also, the chronicles about Roden playing a few moves ahead of his ministers and a few more moves ahead of Heth don't really give the image of him as just a figurehead.
Funny, I always think of Roden as the Chessmaster who revealed himself rather than the Pawn.In chess, the King is one of the weakest pieces...
Funny, I always think of Roden as the Chessmaster who revealed himself rather than the Pawn.In chess, the King is one of the weakest pieces...
President? Do you know how much power I'd have to give up to be President?
-Foiritan is an Intaki, as most of the directors of the Federal NPC organizations, and like Mourmarie Mone says during the Intaki Chase mission, "You know what the Intaki are like – one big mess of criminals. I don't believe the lies they tell us in the media: All Intaki are a part of the Syndicate, directly or not. If it were up to me, I'd lock all the Intaki up for good, or maybe just send them all back to their cesspool of a home planet."
That's a hella handy quote to have on hand. :D
I'm pretty sure the opinion of one individual out of several trillion does not account for the entire domestic policy in the Federation, seeing that the Intaki control said domestic policy.
That aside, I interpreted it as racism from the FIO towards the Intaki, as they would be prejudiced to be the largest security risk.
I think the dissenting RPer opinion and PF touches giving credence to both views, suggests a composite view of the situation. I'm thinking there is actually a pretty large divide between the haves and have-nots in the Intaki demographic. Those more willing to accept the Federation for all it offers, and controversially to allow their Intaki-ness to take a slight backburner in the face Gallente customs, are the haves with - stereotypically - cushy jobs in the Federal bureaucracy.
The have-nots cling to Intaki culture as a point of pride, maybe because it's all they have*, perhaps unfairly saying that the Federation is the cause of their problems, while at the same throwing their lot with the criminal elements of the cluster.
The well to do folks look down upon the less well off because to them it seems they are causing their own problems, instead of just getting on with the program and embracing all the Federation is offering. Meanwhile, they themselves are accused from down below as being sell-outs**.
There is certainly room for both kinds - really all kinds - in the setting. It's conflicted stuff where it's difficult to objectively say who's right and who's wrong, ie. precisely the type of stuff that makes for compelling role-playing fodder and drama. It's when stuff doesn't make just cut-and-dried sense when the best dramatic material appears.
Also, Intaki spirituality is likely to be opposed to materialistic pursuits bringing true happiness and while the common population is probably not deeply engaged in such practises, stuff will filter down from these respected people to form the crust of the culture. Perhaps paradoxically, at least from the other point of view, the same people are advocating drugs as a way of incresing the happiness of the population.You could also say that Intaki religion is a drug cult led by charismatic immortals, who maintain their youth by taking small babies, emptying their brains and letting dead, old persons occupy the bodies. In some sense the religious Intakis are more badass than the religious blooders.
** Consider two examples of such "sell-outs": someone teaching a simplified system of Intaki yoga as simple physical exercise and the Intaki toiling in the Federal bureaucracy. Both see themselves working with their culture within the larger Gallente Federation framework, but the hard-core traditionalists and embittered poor folk alike look at what they are doing as a cultural "evil". That condemnation is likely to be considered primitive and simplistic by their own demographic peers.This sounds plausible. The Verge Vendor famine, "FN turned back at the Intaki gate" -newspiece, and Vremaja Idama's conversion to separatism could be seen as evidence for a division between modernists and traditionalists. Any links/references you might have on the hard-liners or yoga would be highly appreciated.
well if TEA is to be believedEvery time I think about TEA, I hope I suddenly wake up next to Bob Newhart and Bobby Ewing is in my shower.
I see Intakis as some kind of mafia or triads inside the Federation - Mourmarie's quote could mean that many of them have a relative or an acquaintance in the "family", like the italian immigrants in the Godfather movies. The hard-to-reach, low-sec location of their wealthy home system speaks volumes, and the strong "negotiation skills" of their representatives could also be a mafia reference.
In my view Syndicate is the reason why Administration, Customs and the most important Federal bureaus are led by Intakis, and not so much that those individuals would have adopted the Gallentean culture.
Also, Intaki spirituality is likely to be opposed to materialistic pursuits bringing true happiness and while the common population is probably not deeply engaged in such practises, stuff will filter down from these respected people to form the crust of the culture. Perhaps paradoxically, at least from the other point of view, the same people are advocating drugs as a way of incresing the happiness of the population.You could also say that Intaki religion is a drug cult led by charismatic immortals, who maintain their youth by taking small babies, emptying their brains and letting dead, old persons occupy the bodies. In some sense the religious Intakis are more badass than the religious blooders.
Any links/references you might have on the hard-liners or yoga would be highly appreciated.
Yeah, not such a nice way to look at it, indeed. Of course, it would be nice to get more info on the Reborn process, too. Then again, that goes for most things in Eve...
No links available, those are purely examples of my own creation. I've used the Intaki yoga teacher a bit in RP and in the past as a sort of mildly funny example which still could illustrate the problematic issues. As for the traditionalists, I don't really think guessing that there are indeed hardcore traditionalists somewhere in the Intaki sphere to be such a stretch.
Yeah, not such a nice way to look at it, indeed. Of course, it would be nice to get more info on the Reborn process, too. Then again, that goes for most things in Eve...
The Reborn process sounds like a juicy chronicle topic. It's curious why no one has taken up the challenge.
Because no one wants to start an argument about religious beliefs, because it's always a waste of time.Well to an extent, abhorrent rituals and cult apologism have high entertainment value. Intaki's take on the theme just seems to be missing from the series.
Because no one wants to start an argument about religious beliefs, because it's always a waste of time.
Well to an extent, abhorrent rituals and cult apologism have high entertainment value. Intaki's take on the theme just seems to be missing from the series.
Because no one wants to start an argument about religious beliefs, because it's always a waste of time.
Well to an extent, abhorrent rituals and cult apologism have high entertainment value. Intaki's take on the theme just seems to be missing from the series.
One of the themes around which most player interest and role-play in Eve has coalesced around is slavery tied to religious beliefs. Seems fertile ground for juicy stuff! I think the theme of Intaki-culture-within-the-Federation is potential a very good one for roleplayers in the Gallente sphere, from separatists to Federalists and liberals to conservatives, alike. Hell, it is there simmering already, but just a little bit more meat around the bones from CCP might help.
The Intaki culture, and Intaki itself, is on par with the "slavery vs. religion" ball of wax. So far, players can't even reasonably agree on the state of the planet. Last thing we need is to add religion to that mess.I agree.
Unless ofc. they make a cronicle some day about the Intaki's themselves, from the state of the homeworld (political, social, economical, military, ideological etc.) to the religious beliefs and how the Reborn process works - heck, they gave us PF pieces on how cloning works, and the Reborn idea is supposed to have been helpe a long way with cloning, actually making a somewhat blurred idea more physically gripable and plausable to most citizens to understand. If it also offered some idea as to what exactly the Mordu Intaki and the Syndicate Intaki think of things and/or the homeworld and Fed in general, I think this would help alot. There would still be more than enough empty space to fill by players (or for toons to get inspired/helped by info on 'their' take on things) so I don't think it would ruin alot of RP or anything, at worst some players would have to curve thier RP histories/ideas around some 'facts' or jsut ignore the new info all together, if they want.This is the problem really, for all sides and new CCP canon and lore, or expansion of current known facts is the only thing that can resolve some of the issues.
The Intaki culture, and Intaki itself, is on par with the "slavery vs. religion" ball of wax. So far, players can't even reasonably agree on the state of the planet. Last thing we need is to add religion to that mess.I agree.
Even as an Intaki RPer the relentless cycle of the same arguement can become frustrating, and for me it's partly due to trying to stay on topic. It sometimes feels like a post about a particular thing/event/group that happens to mention "Intaki" will spark off the whole Federation/Intaki relationship debate even if that isn't what's being talked about by the OP. (Take this very thread as a good example :P)
For example. I'm going to assume that this topic (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1522984) is what prompted this (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1524186). I could be wrong and it might be nothing more than coincidence, but the responses from some in the first topic appear to bleed straight into the content and responses of the second.
And what's the effect of this on good RP? Well because of never seeming to make any progress or reach any consensus on any part of the issue... or being able to explore different aspects of the Intaki debate (I wouldn't call it an obsession myself :P) like the relationship and interaction with the Syndicate or Mordu's Legion, I ended up avoiding the same old stagnant arguement that would have been all but innevitable and decided not to respond at all.Some players just enjoy doing endless fighting, name-calling and emorage on non-issues. The analytical scagga-style approach to solve the Intaki/slavery problems sounds hilarious and would definitely be worth trying. The topic of the discussion is actually quite irrelevant - the fun can be for instance in giving depth to your character, twisting and misinterpreting the words of the opponents or in finding new contexts and angles to the old issues.
And so my frustration moved from the problem of going around in circles to the problem of not RPing the issue at all. That's bad for me as a player and for Seri who clearly put a lot of work into his address to the students of UC and hasnt seen much response to his post.
Well it was argued that Syndicate/Intakis might be the puppet masters behind Roden. It should be relevant to this thread as well.Unless ofc. they make a cronicle some day about the Intaki's themselves, from the state of the homeworld (political, social, economical, military, ideological etc.) to the religious beliefs and how the Reborn process works - heck, they gave us PF pieces on how cloning works, and the Reborn idea is supposed to have been helpe a long way with cloning, actually making a somewhat blurred idea more physically gripable and plausable to most citizens to understand. If it also offered some idea as to what exactly the Mordu Intaki and the Syndicate Intaki think of things and/or the homeworld and Fed in general, I think this would help alot. There would still be more than enough empty space to fill by players (or for toons to get inspired/helped by info on 'their' take on things) so I don't think it would ruin alot of RP or anything, at worst some players would have to curve thier RP histories/ideas around some 'facts' or jsut ignore the new info all together, if they want.This is the problem really, for all sides and new CCP canon and lore, or expansion of current known facts is the only thing that can resolve some of the issues.
It looks like this particular conversation has shifted somewhat from The Roden Administration and has shifted to Intaki. Perhaps it's worth a topic split?
I'd love to explore Intaki properly OOC to include the Federation, State, Syndicate and Mordu's legion as well as some of the interesting points raised regarding Intaki criminality, etc. but this shouldn't deny Roden his own topic as was intended by the OP.
Well I think there is already enough known about the Intaki religion to role-play it. The main reason why this hasn't been done seems to be that the player community takes it very seriously, is not comfortable with the way things are and are waiting for more PF to rectify the issues. A PF dump would take away our freedom to do plausibility experiments, trash a lot of RP that has been done, and it might be that for these reasons it will never happen. I think it all goes back to Ken's OP about RP styles. (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=2125.0)
Some players just enjoy doing endless fighting, name-calling and emorage on non-issues. The analytical scagga-style approach to solve the Intaki/slavery problems sounds hilarious and would definitely be worth trying. The topic of the discussion is actually quite irrelevant - the fun can be for instance in giving depth to your character, twisting and misinterpreting the words of the opponents or in finding new contexts and angles to the old issues.I agree. I'm definately one of those RPers who's become extremely attached to the Intaki and the particular cause of the secessionist movement. I'm definately not at a place where I feel the need to step back a little though. The ILF's cause is an emotive one to those involved and I'm not sure the arguing in public is something that should be restricted to those with a diplomat badge.
Anyhow, I agree with Senn that when people get clearly OOC serious with what they are arguing about, it might be a good time to try something else. If you have lost your interest in repeating the same arguments in the Intaki related discussions, maybe you could take a short break from your duties as ILF's diplomat, let some newbie enjoy the fun and return when it all looks attractive to you again?
Well it was argued that Syndicate/Intakis might be the puppet masters behind Roden. It should be relevant to this thread as well.True and while that particular point should be looked at here, I think that the Intaki deserve a general overarching topic of their own where the various interweaving relationships with their various neighbours is explored and some of the points made and being discussed here seem a great starting point.
four paragraphs of quoted textI'm in full agreement. I feel that this state of affairs could be at least partially caused by overreliance on one charismatic player. When playing a secessionist, I got frustrated on the lack of consequential RP and tried to come up with initiatives. It turned out that the community would have preferred the ideas to be "officially" approved - and due to hierarchy and various issues this was impossible. Eventually I moved on.
What's started to give me grief in the Intaki RP sphere is how frustrating it's become. It doesn't seem to matter how much effort someone puts into altering the environment, either for the militias, for the nations, for individual groups, what have you. The situation remains a consistent, disappointing malaise of inactivity.
I'm really not sure what to blame this on. The obvious problem is the facwar system, but I think we've all bitched about that enough for the time being. The second is what we're discussing here, players simply refusing to acknowledge or offer credence for RP that negates or opposes theirs. Again, not sure what to attribute this to.
The nature of the Intaki-based RP sphere is fascinating, because it forces so many facets of the Federation and State into play at once, literally everyone could potentially have a stake in Intaki's future. But for all the work put into it, nothing seems to happen. I can't speak for the ILF's efforts in the past, but from what I've heard, there was a time when Intaki could be influenced by player actions.
Just in this thread we've already seen how complex Intaki RP can get. Not to mention, it incorporates Placid and Syndicate, just by being a connecting pin in that part of the cluster, so to speak. It's just a shame that too few parties are willing to put their backs into it.
This is a gross and unacceptable misrepresentation of the situation and an insult to both the Federation and the Intaki people who remain proud members of it. Not every Intaki, nor even a majority, remained with the Federation out of fear. The vast majority of Intaki - then and now - remain with the Federation because of our unity of purpose with the Federation.
Attempting to imply otherwise casts shame on the Intaki as much as the Federation, and you should be ashamed to give voice to it.
But personally I'm tired of putting up ideas and facing dismissive responses which ICly say "blahblahblhblah", but the OOC and true meaning behind the words is clear: an emotionally charged "you are doing it wrong". [bittervet] I've fought that fight too many times now. [/bittervet]
The issue with Intaki is that...you've got people that have put years into forming a strong and influential RP base, and suddenly when CCP release PF five years on that suggest "The Intaki are heavily influential members of the Federation, and that the permutations have worked both ways" or whatever it may be, you've suddenly got those same people who have worked so hard going "Oh, right"I find it hard to believe that the separatists would not have been aware of the Syndicate, Euphoric Gaze, Mordu's Legion and whatever. I believe they have deliberately chosen to stay away from the shady aspects and focus on police work, trading, charity and other nice things.
Example time and sorry to put Andreus on the spot here... reference (http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1524186&page=1#12).Quote from: Andreus Ixiris on Eve-O ForumsThis is a gross and unacceptable misrepresentation of the situation and an insult to both the Federation and the Intaki people who remain proud members of it. Not every Intaki, nor even a majority, remained with the Federation out of fear. The vast majority of Intaki - then and now - remain with the Federation because of our unity of purpose with the Federation.
This is a post to which someone could reply in this fashion: "No. You are wrong."
That would be some great role-play, but the fault wouldn't be entirely on the respondent's conscience. Andreus kinda forces the situation into that. Very productive indeed and "no u wrong" pretty much sums up a lot of the RP that surrounds the topic.
Now, luckily Andreus also continues with this:Quote from: Andreus Ixiris on Eve-O ForumsAttempting to imply otherwise casts shame on the Intaki as much as the Federation, and you should be ashamed to give voice to it.
Because this is something you can actually role-play around, instead of just playing "yes"-"no "yes"-"no" games until your brain hurts, but the thrust of the point still stands in aggravation. As presented in the thread, the crux of the argument and the RP around it is an OOC argument about how things really stand in the PF.