Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: Saede Riordan on 11 Sep 2012, 06:19
-
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73381 (http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73381)
New balance blog, CCP unveils that they're not just revamping frigs, but all the cruisers too.
-
Looks good!
-
Read the blog.
Only substantial thing I really got out of it was "HEY LOOK THE VAGA'S GOT FRILLS AGAIN".
Substantial in comparison, of course. :lol:
-
Looks fantastic to me in every way.
Excellent jobs.
-
Logistics Frigates... Small Shield Transfer/Armor Rep changes... Tier 1 Cruisers as Logi Cruisers...
It will be interesting to see where they take the Logi Cruisers. Right now, an Osprey can fit 3 Small STs no problem (and provide ~1/4 the ST as a standard Scimitar at ~1/20 the cost). Without more slots, it can't fit more Small STs and it only can manage 2 Medium STs.
-
I am loving the direction they're going with all of this.
I hate drones though and the Amarr becoming more drone-dependent is making me somewhat of a sadface.
-
I really like the direction they take for this global ship revamp. It makes more sense and also looks a lot cleaner and proper.
Besides ASB modules that I still do not like at all in their design, I am a bit meh about their announced changes on cruisers.
- Making logistic T1 cruisers proper logistic ships is good.
- Making sure that EW T1 cruisers are doing their job better is good.
- Making sure that useless cruisers like the maller, the omen, etc, are now proper combat ships is good.
- Boosting combat cruisers (especially the rupture) sounds a little weird to me. They want to make them ok versus BCs ? Isn't a BC specifically designed to kill cruisers in the first place ? Like, destroyers are designed to kill frigates ? I am not even sure it is the case anymore though... This particular points sounds merely like the average escalation buff.
The beautifully sleek shaped Moa has two options, just like the Merlin before it: either close range role with a shield resistance and hybrid turret damage combination, or sniping duty with hybrid turret damage and range synergy.
I wonder why they felt the need to add that little bit of text for this one. :lol:
I hate drones though and the Amarr becoming more drone-dependent is making me somewhat of a sadface.
Well, going Amarr and never using the arbitrator hull sounds quite... limitating to me in the first place. If we look at it again they always have added tiny drone focus here and there on amarr ships. True, Minmatar ships that are not dedicated droneboats usually can take more drones than the average combat amarr ship. But you can also find drones on the legion (one of the subs), and also on the sentinel which is a hybrid EW/droneboat like its big brother arbitrator.
-
I am loving the direction they're going with all of this.
I hate drones though and the Amarr becoming more drone-dependent is making me somewhat of a sadface.
How are they making Amarr ships more drone-dependent? Aside from this proposed new destroyer (which is only stated to most likely have a bonused flight of light drones and could be changed at any moment), the only Amarr ships that are explicitly "drone-dependent" are the Sentinel and the three Arbitrator variations. Of those four ships, the Sentinel doesn't even have drone bonuses - just a 60m3 drone bay. If you hate drones and don't want to use them, the solution seems pretty obvious: stay away from the Amarrian electronic warfare boats both before and after the patch.
-
At the moment I'm behind a DNS filter that for whatever reason blocks eveonline.com (but still allows things like battle.net :bash:). Can a brother get a copypasta of this here devblog? :)
Edit: Facebook isn't blocked though, so I did notice the new Vaga and Stabber concept art on the EVE fb page. They look great!
[spoiler](https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/202073_10151153178169394_1955253401_o.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/327092_10151153178044394_1986063064_o.jpg)[/spoiler]
-
Its sans links but here it is:
Things have been going well on the ship balancing front as we ramp up to our winter expansion in the coming months. We began earlier this year with rebalancing combat frigates for Inferno, and then delivered improved mining barges through CCP Tallest. We also gave you attack frigates and rookie ship changes despite summer vacations taking many staff away. That’s a total of 19 ships, which is not too shabby to start with, considering it’s a little less than 10% of all available EVE Online vessels. Adding CCP Fozzie to our team has been a great aid in getting things moving along, a bit like hiring an extra half-naked loud hairy vocalist to a heavy metal band. Plus, he doesn't eat much (a few peanuts we launch at him in the morning do the trick), and usually he sleeps in a dark corner somewhere and works 22 hours a day. Not a bad deal.
Despite being happy with our first round of balancing changes, work has barely started and we really want to ramp things up for the next expansion. So, let’s check what you are getting for winter.
David versus Goliath (16 ships)
Frigates have the highest balancing priority so far, and the experience gained with Inferno is definitely going to be put into good use here. Here is the updated list which has changed a little since Fanfest 2012.
Remaining combat frigates: Kestrel, Tristan and Breacher. Previously expected to become missile ships, we decided to keep their role in the same category as the Tormentor, Punisher, Merlin, Incursus and Rifter for consistency and simplicity purposes. The Kestrel will now have a new long range bonus. The Tristan is being overhauled into a true drone boat, while the Breacher becomes a resilient close range missile platform thanks to its shield boost amount per level. Would you like to know more?
Exploration / scanning frigates: Magnate, Heron, Imicus, Probe. All of these ships are now properly focused by having mini-profession bonuses, increased probe scan strength and far better slot layouts in general. Would you like to know more?
Disruption frigates: Crucifier, Griffin, Maulus, Vigil. The Crucifier is now fully dedicated to tracking disruption. The Griffin bonus remains unchanged, but has a better slot layout. The Maulus loses the hybrid damage bonus and specializes in sensor dampening with drone support, while the Vigil will no longer have a speed bonus and will focus on target painting. Would you like to know more?
Support frigates: Inquisitor, Bantam, Navitas, Burst. A mix of formerly known missile and mining frigates that have been revamped to have logistics capabilities mounted on small, mobile hulls. Combined with a small remote armor repairer and shield transfer overhaul, it means new pilots or people interested in logistics support will now have a proper upgrade path all the way to the famously known Tech 2 logistic cruisers. Such a change will also dramatically shake up combat due to introducing repairing capabilities on small scale frigate fleets. Would you like to know more?
ORE frigate: Unable to mount Strip Miners, it will neither have the yield, ore hold or resilience of the Mining Barges. Instead, it will focus on mobility for ore retrieval in hostile space (read ninja mining), as well as acting as a stepping stone for new pilots. Keep an eye on “Features & Ideas” forums for more information on this hull. Please refer to one of our previous blogs to see concept art of it
Lethal thrashing (8 ships)
As hinted at in a previous blog, destroyers are also receiving some well-deserved love.
Existing destroyers: Coercer, Cormorant, Catalyst, Thrasher. Formerly known as Tier 1 destroyers, they are mainly in good shape since their first buff in Crucible. There are still a few points that need to be looked at before we can move on. Would you like to know more?
New destroyers: while the exact attributes are not ready for review so far we can explain their roles a bit more than in the previous blog. Main roles will focus on medium range damage projection through drones and missiles. Amarr and Gallente will most likely have fully bonused flights of light drones to play with while being supported by several turret slots. Caldari and Minmatar will boast high-slots fully loaded with missile launchers. Slot layout is expected to be 13 in total with overall speed reduced and signature radius increased compared to existing existing destroyer hulls. In all cases please remember this still is work in progress; a new “Features & Ideas” forum thread will be opened when more details are ready for public review.
Cruising full speed (16 ships)
Due to the ship balancing team's excellent work during the summer we are able to move ahead of schedule and revamp all Tech 1 cruisers for winter. Tech 1 cruisers have fallen out of favor over time as new ship classes, like the new battlecruisers, have come along and made their role less useful in many cases. As a general rule of thumb we would like to change layout to 13-14 slots on all cruisers, slightly increase EHP and significantly improve mobility to make them viable against battlecruisers. Exact attributes are to be unveiled at a later date.
Support cruisers: Augoror, Osprey, Exequror, Scythe. These almost extinct hulls will see a new purpose for being properly refurbished as Tech 1 logistic ships. With removing their current mining role, our goal is to make them useful enough to be actively picked in fleets when Tech 2 logistics are not available instead of having the FC sending you back to your momma. CCP Fozzie will post new details soon (if he hasn’t already, for he is a rabid animal), so keep an eye on the “Features & Ideas” forum section.
Disruption cruisers: Arbitrator, Blackbird, Celestis, Bellicose. Our plan is to turn the Arbitrator and Bellicose into combat / EW hybrids (a bit like combat recons if you will), while the Blackbird and Celestis are more suited for fleet duty. The Arbitrator is quite good, but will receive a boost to be kept on par with the other revamped cruisers so it doesn’t become sad. The Blackbird is quite good so no major changes will happen here. The Celestis could use some real love due to the poor state of dampeners so expect the hybrid damage bonus to go away and we will expand on this in more detail in the future. The Bellicose will combine target painting with missiles on a mean, fast hull that will resemble the Caracal as an anti-frigate platform.
Attack cruisers: Omen, Caracal, Thorax, Stabber. We want to clearly revamp these four ships to be dedicated to speed and damage. The Omen must be one of the most frustrating ships to fit so we are going to look at it. Like CCP Guard, it should be a mean miniaturized version of the Armageddon, not a public target for bad-taste midget tossing jokes. The Caracal is also good, but again, could use a tweak in regards to fitting and mobility to make better use of its damage projection. The Thorax will be revamped to fit the attack class role which means making sure its mobile enough to punch your face at close range without wasting a ship bonus dedicated to Microwarpdrive capacitor usage. The Stabber will most likely have its speed bonus integrated into the hull to make room for something more dedicated to Minmatar combat doctrine – some of you will ponder, surely that must be a salvaging bonus?
Combat cruisers: Maller, Moa, Vexor, Rupture. Poor, sad Maller, your whole existence is a tragedy. Please let us put an end to this travesty by properly turning you into a mini-Abaddon, with an armor resistance and laser damage bonus to actually serve as something else than bait. The beautifully sleek shaped Moa has two options, just like the Merlin before it: either close range role with a shield resistance and hybrid turret damage combination, or sniping duty with hybrid turret damage and range synergy. Play testing and feedback will tell which one is picked. The Vexor is a good ship, and will receive some resilience boosts to fit into the new combat role. The Rupture, while staying a solid and versatile choice, could use more resilience and speed as well.
In the end
So all things being equal, we will be giving you 40 revamped hulls to play with this winter which is around 20% of all EVE Online ships. Not only does this allow new players to be more competitive from the start, it also ties well with Factional Warfare revamps and gives everyone more excuses to shoot others in the face while singing Christmas carols. It also gets us so much closer of the next long awaited ship class that needs to be purified with fire: battlecruisers. Prophecy, Ferox, Brutix, Cyclone, we know how you feel. Drake and Hurricane, we are coming for you too.
As a reminder, we would like to state there are no skill changes planned for the winter expansion - your Destroyers and Battlecruisers skills are safe for now, as we are not adjusting spaceship command skill trees until we are done with the Battlecruiser class.
Tired of reading, want to participate in balancing discussion? Then don’t hesitate to hop in the forum threads mentioned above and give constructive feedback. CCP Fozzie and I are on call. Want to actually test the ships and shoot some Devs in the process? Then come to Duality on the 19th-21st of September, where our first round of play testing will take place: all frigates and existing destroyers will be available for players to use – except the ORE frig, new destroyers and cruisers, which will be looked at later. As mentioned above, many Devs will also hop in to give you a chance to get sweet, sweet revenge for altering your preferred hull. Gotta catch em all! Please see this wiki article on how to connect to Duality.
-
Can a brother get a copypasta of this here devblog? :)
Version with links:
ship balancing winter update
reported by CCP Ytterbium (http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=author&p=CCP%20Ytterbium&pid=111773845) | 2012.09.11 11:30:00 | NEW | Comments (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=152808)
Things have been going well on the ship balancing front as we ramp up to our winter expansion in the coming months. We began earlier this year with rebalancing combat frigates for Inferno, and then delivered improved mining barges through CCP Tallest. We also gave you attack frigates and rookie ship changes despite summer vacations taking many staff away. That’s a total of 19 ships, which is not too shabby to start with, considering it’s a little less than 10% of all available EVE Online vessels. Adding CCP Fozzie to our team has been a great aid in getting things moving along, a bit like hiring an extra half-naked loud hairy vocalist to a heavy metal band. Plus, he doesn't eat much (a few peanuts we launch at him in the morning do the trick), and usually he sleeps in a dark corner somewhere and works 22 hours a day. Not a bad deal.
Despite being happy with our first round of balancing changes, work has barely started and we really want to ramp things up for the next expansion. So, let’s check what you are getting for winter.
David versus Goliath (16 ships)
Frigates have the highest balancing priority so far, and the experience gained with Inferno is definitely going to be put into good use here. Here is the updated list which has changed a little since Fanfest 2012.
- Remaining combat frigates: Kestrel, Tristan and Breacher. Previously expected to become missile ships, we decided to keep their role in the same category as the Tormentor, Punisher, Merlin, Incursus and Rifter for consistency and simplicity purposes. The Kestrel will now have a new long range bonus. The Tristan is being overhauled into a true drone boat, while the Breacher becomes a resilient close range missile platform thanks to its shield boost amount per level. Would you like to know more? (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=144693&find=unread)
- Exploration / scanning frigates: Magnate, Heron, Imicus, Probe. All of these ships are now properly focused by having mini-profession bonuses, increased probe scan strength and far better slot layouts in general. Would you like to know more? (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=143584&find=unread)
- Disruption frigates: Crucifier, Griffin, Maulus, Vigil. The Crucifier is now fully dedicated to tracking disruption. The Griffin bonus remains unchanged, but has a better slot layout. The Maulus loses the hybrid damage bonus and specializes in sensor dampening with drone support, while the Vigil will no longer have a speed bonus and will focus on target painting. Would you like to know more? (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=142136&find=unread)
- Support frigates: Inquisitor, Bantam, Navitas, Burst. A mix of formerly known missile and mining frigates that have been revamped to have logistics capabilities mounted on small, mobile hulls. Combined with a small remote armor repairer and shield transfer overhaul, it means new pilots or people interested in logistics support will now have a proper upgrade path all the way to the famously known Tech 2 logistic cruisers. Such a change will also dramatically shake up combat due to introducing repairing capabilities on small scale frigate fleets. Would you like to know more? (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146069&find=unread)
- ORE frigate: Unable to mount Strip Miners, it will neither have the yield, ore hold or resilience of the Mining Barges. Instead, it will focus on mobility for ore retrieval in hostile space (read ninja mining), as well as acting as a stepping stone for new pilots. Keep an eye on “Features & Ideas (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=270)” forums for more information on this hull. Please refer to one of our previous blogs to see concept art of it (http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72890)
Lethal thrashing (8 ships)
As hinted at in a previous blog, destroyers are also receiving some well-deserved love.
- Existing destroyers: Coercer, Cormorant, Catalyst, Thrasher. Formerly known as Tier 1 destroyers, they are mainly in good shape since their first buff in Crucible. There are still a few points that need to be looked at before we can move on. Would you like to know more? (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=142102&find=unread)
- New destroyers: while the exact attributes are not ready for review so far we can explain their roles a bit more than in the previous blog. Main roles will focus on medium range damage projection through drones and missiles. Amarr and Gallente will most likely have fully bonused flights of light drones to play with while being supported by several turret slots. Caldari and Minmatar will boast high-slots fully loaded with missile launchers. Slot layout is expected to be 13 in total with overall speed reduced and signature radius increased compared to existing existing destroyer hulls. In all cases please remember this still is work in progress; a new “Features & Ideas (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=270)” forum thread will be opened when more details are ready for public review.
Cruising full speed (16 ships)
Due to the ship balancing team's excellent work during the summer we are able to move ahead of schedule and revamp all Tech 1 cruisers for winter. Tech 1 cruisers have fallen out of favor over time as new ship classes, like the new battlecruisers, have come along and made their role less useful in many cases. As a general rule of thumb we would like to change layout to 13-14 slots on all cruisers, slightly increase EHP and significantly improve mobility to make them viable against battlecruisers. Exact attributes are to be unveiled at a later date.
- Support cruisers: Augoror, Osprey, Exequror, Scythe. These almost extinct hulls will see a new purpose for being properly refurbished as Tech 1 logistic ships. With removing their current mining role, our goal is to make them useful enough to be actively picked in fleets when Tech 2 logistics are not available instead of having the FC sending you back to your momma. CCP Fozzie will post new details soon (if he hasn’t already, for he is a rabid animal), so keep an eye on the “Features & Ideas (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=270)” forum section.
- Disruption cruisers: Arbitrator, Blackbird, Celestis, Bellicose. Our plan is to turn the Arbitrator and Bellicose into combat / EW hybrids (a bit like combat recons if you will), while the Blackbird and Celestis are more suited for fleet duty. The Arbitrator is quite good, but will receive a boost to be kept on par with the other revamped cruisers so it doesn’t become sad. The Blackbird is quite good so no major changes will happen here. The Celestis could use some real love due to the poor state of dampeners so expect the hybrid damage bonus to go away and we will expand on this in more detail in the future. The Bellicose will combine target painting with missiles on a mean, fast hull that will resemble the Caracal as an anti-frigate platform.
- Attack cruisers: Omen, Caracal, Thorax, Stabber. We want to clearly revamp these four ships to be dedicated to speed and damage. The Omen must be one of the most frustrating ships to fit so we are going to look at it. Like CCP Guard, it should be a mean miniaturized version of the Armageddon, not a public target for bad-taste midget tossing jokes. The Caracal is also good, but again, could use a tweak in regards to fitting and mobility to make better use of its damage projection. The Thorax will be revamped to fit the attack class role which means making sure its mobile enough to punch your face at close range without wasting a ship bonus dedicated to Microwarpdrive capacitor usage. The Stabber will most likely have its speed bonus integrated into the hull to make room for something more dedicated to Minmatar combat doctrine – some of you will ponder, surely that must be a salvaging bonus?
- Combat cruisers: Maller, Moa, Vexor, Rupture. Poor, sad Maller, your whole existence is a tragedy. Please let us put an end to this travesty by properly turning you into a mini-Abaddon, with an armor resistance and laser damage bonus to actually serve as something else than bait. The beautifully sleek shaped Moa has two options, just like the Merlin before it: either close range role with a shield resistance and hybrid turret damage combination, or sniping duty with hybrid turret damage and range synergy. Play testing and feedback will tell which one is picked. The Vexor is a good ship, and will receive some resilience boosts to fit into the new combat role. The Rupture, while staying a solid and versatile choice, could use more resilience and speed as well.
In the end
So all things being equal, we will be giving you 40 revamped hulls to play with this winter which is around 20% of all EVE Online ships. Not only does this allow new players to be more competitive from the start, it also ties well with Factional Warfare revamps and gives everyone more excuses to shoot others in the face while singing Christmas carols. It also gets us so much closer of the next long awaited ship class that needs to be purified with fire: battlecruisers. Prophecy, Ferox, Brutix, Cyclone, we know how you feel. Drake and Hurricane, we are coming for you too.
As a reminder, we would like to state there are no skill changes planned for the winter expansion - your Destroyers and Battlecruisers skills are safe for now, as we are not adjusting spaceship command skill trees until we are done with the Battlecruiser class.
Tired of reading, want to participate in balancing discussion? Then don’t hesitate to hop in the forum threads mentioned above and give constructive feedback. CCP Fozzie and I are on call. Want to actually test the ships and shoot some Devs in the process? Then come to Duality on the 19th-21st of September, where our first round of play testing will take place: all frigates and existing destroyers will be available for players to use – except the ORE frig, new destroyers and cruisers, which will be looked at later. As mentioned above, many Devs will also hop in to give you a chance to get sweet, sweet revenge for altering your preferred hull. Gotta catch em all! Please see this wiki article (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Duality) on how to connect to Duality.
Before we forget, since we also love shiny pictures, here is a small summary on how the revamped ship role layout looks like.
Image: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63391/1/Wintershipbalancing.jpg
Hang on, what’s that on the background? Looks familiar, let’s have a better look at it shall we?
Image: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63391/1/stabber.jpg
As the icing on the cake from our Art department (many thanks to all the people involved, including the amazing CCP Phor), we would like to let you know that the many cries of despair from Stabber / Vagabond pilots have been heard, and you will also get revamped models as part of the winter deal.
Image: http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63391/1/vagabond.jpg
Enjoy!
-
Awesome stuff, thank you both.
-
I am loving the direction they're going with all of this.
I hate drones though and the Amarr becoming more drone-dependent is making me somewhat of a sadface.
How are they making Amarr ships more drone-dependent? Aside from this proposed new destroyer (which is only stated to most likely have a bonused flight of light drones and could be changed at any moment), the only Amarr ships that are explicitly "drone-dependent" are the Sentinel and the three Arbitrator variations. Of those four ships, the Sentinel doesn't even have drone bonuses - just a 60m3 drone bay. If you hate drones and don't want to use them, the solution seems pretty obvious: stay away from the Amarrian electronic warfare boats both before and after the patch.
The Tormentor uses drones, as well. I also read somewhere, I don't remember where, that they're working on incorporating drones into more of the Amarr hulls.
-
EC-300 er'ry day.
-
My problem with drone mechanics is less the drones themselves and more the interface you have to use to control them, which is shit imo. I really hope those changes that make drones have UI button elements like modules comes out soon.
-
My problem with drone mechanics is less the drones themselves and more the interface you have to use to control them, which is shit imo. I really hope those changes that make drones have UI button elements like modules comes out soon.
Like a high slot module that loads drones like ammunition from the drone bay and launches them when activated? When I have drones, my attack/return hotkeys are easy enough to use. It's the launching that still requires the stupid right click.
-
My problem with drone mechanics is less the drones themselves and more the interface you have to use to control them, which is shit imo. I really hope those changes that make drones have UI button elements like modules comes out soon.
Like a high slot module that loads drones like ammunition from the drone bay and launches them when activated? When I have drones, my attack/return hotkeys are easy enough to use. It's the launching that still requires the stupid right click.
Yes but every shortcut SHOULD also have an UI variant, like guns that have shortcuts (F1, F2,...,Fn) AND UI buttons. That's quite fundamental in ergonomics imho.
Anyway, eve is far from being an example in that field. xD
-
dunno that you could assign UI thingies to drones though.
I mean, the idea of a button for "launch group 1" "launch group 2", and so on, sounds good, but there can be rather a lot of groups.
Can carriers still have light drones? or was that changed? But in any case, a Dominix has 375m3 of drone space, that's enough for a lot of groups of drones, not all of them can really be assigned a launch key, can they ? 15 flights of light drones, hmm.
Could assign ready groups, but still, you'd have to right click and launch for groups not hot-keyed, which you might need to do.
:\
-
You can use the dronebay window and enhance it to have specialized buttons on it. The same way you have orbit/approach/jump/warp to buttons on the navigation window.
-
Amarr droneboats are op. Arbitrator can field 50m3 more drones than a Vexor, gets more flexibility and an EWar bonus.
Sentinel can pretty much solo any other frigate out there, cause 17km neuts, tracking disruptors and holy fuck Don't get me started on the size of its dronebay.
So don't complain about Amarr droneboats, if there's one thing they need, it's a nerf.
-
Amarr droneboats are op. Arbitrator can field 50m3 more drones than a Vexor, gets more flexibility and an EWar bonus.
Sentinel can pretty much solo any other frigate out there, cause 17km neuts, tracking disruptors and holy fuck Don't get me started on the size of its dronebay.
So don't complain about Amarr droneboats, if there's one thing they need, it's a nerf.
I think the point that was discussed was a dislike of the idea of amarr droneboats, not a comment on their performance. ;)
-
Stabber and variants get redesign but the Moa remains the mutant space duck of the Caldari Fleet.
Very disappoint.
Caldari missile destroyer made up for it though. Hopefully it isn't as gimped as the Flycatcher when using SML.
-
- Boosting combat cruisers (especially the rupture) sounds a little weird to me. They want to make them ok versus BCs ? Isn't a BC specifically designed to kill cruisers in the first place ? Like, destroyers are designed to kill frigates ? I am not even sure it is the case anymore though... This particular points sounds merely like the average escalation buff.
The tier 1 & 2 Battlecruisers appear to have been specifically designed to be basic FC/Boosting ships.
A relook at the tier 1 & 2 Battlecruisers should also be done; reducing their appeal as ships of the line. Tier 1 Battlecruisers might be moved towards being more in line with Cruisers, having many attributes (warp speed, sensor strength, range, weapon points, etc) in the Cruiser class, but having an additional high slot or two for command modules. Their real benefit should be in EHP, perhaps trading EHP for less capable weapons. Want to fly a DPS ship, fly a cruiser; want to have boost in your 100M ISK fleet, have someone in a Tier 1 Battlecruiser.
Tier 2 Battlecruisers are currently better versions of tier 1 Battlecruisers in terms of intended role. They need a unique role. I do not think it should be "kill cruisers."
-
Stabber and variants get redesign but the Moa remains the mutant space duck of the Caldari Fleet.
Dinosaur with a briefcase.
-
Stabber and variants get redesign but the Moa remains the mutant space duck of the Caldari Fleet.
Dinosaur with a briefcase.
I guess the Moa needs a place to store those end of quarter financial reports.
-
Stabber and variants get redesign but the Moa remains the mutant space duck of the Caldari Fleet.
Dinosaur with a briefcase.
Whereas the Griffin is a robot butler with a suitcase and a headlamp.
-
Amarr droneboats are op. Arbitrator can field 50m3 more drones than a Vexor, gets more flexibility and an EWar bonus.
Sentinel can pretty much solo any other frigate out there, cause 17km neuts, tracking disruptors and holy fuck Don't get me started on the size of its dronebay.
So don't complain about Amarr droneboats, if there's one thing they need, it's a nerf.
They are pretty good yes, though I would never dare to engage a vexor with an arbitrator myself. Depends of the vexor ofc, if the vexor has no guns and only med drones, I would yes, otherwise, I wouldnt.
A vexor can take less drones yes, but at the same time it can field heavy drones while the arbitrator cannot. Of course it means for the vexor that you have a very specialized anti cruiser fit that will have less spare drones if something happens. But a 2 heavy, 2 med and 1 light drone vexor were pretty unbeatable for me when I started FW, when gallente droneboats were still quite famous for their versatility (can take frigates, cruisers, everything in solo).
Stabber and variants get redesign but the Moa remains the mutant space duck of the Caldari Fleet.
Dinosaur with a briefcase.
Still better than the giant space aphid osprey.
- Boosting combat cruisers (especially the rupture) sounds a little weird to me. They want to make them ok versus BCs ? Isn't a BC specifically designed to kill cruisers in the first place ? Like, destroyers are designed to kill frigates ? I am not even sure it is the case anymore though... This particular points sounds merely like the average escalation buff.
The tier 1 & 2 Battlecruisers appear to have been specifically designed to be basic FC/Boosting ships.
A relook at the tier 1 & 2 Battlecruisers should also be done; reducing their appeal as ships of the line. Tier 1 Battlecruisers might be moved towards being more in line with Cruisers, having many attributes (warp speed, sensor strength, range, weapon points, etc) in the Cruiser class, but having an additional high slot or two for command modules. Their real benefit should be in EHP, perhaps trading EHP for less capable weapons. Want to fly a DPS ship, fly a cruiser; want to have boost in your 100M ISK fleet, have someone in a Tier 1 Battlecruiser.
Tier 2 Battlecruisers are currently better versions of tier 1 Battlecruisers in terms of intended role. They need a unique role. I do not think it should be "kill cruisers."
Yes definitly.
I don't like destroyers and BCs for these exact reasons. They do not fit well in the current mechanisms.
-
Looks good, will wait till I find out more though. They've done a pretty good job with the frigates so don't think I'll be too disappointed.
Also anyone who changes the design of the Moa will be on my hit-list forever :
-
My problem with drone mechanics is less the drones themselves and more the interface you have to use to control them, which is shit imo. I really hope those changes that make drones have UI button elements like modules comes out soon.
An easy fix for this is to simply check your keymapping in game and set some easy shortcut keys for drone control.
i only really use that little box in the corner for choosing which drones to launch. (usually sentries or hobgobs.)
-
My problem with drone mechanics is less the drones themselves and more the interface you have to use to control them, which is shit imo. I really hope those changes that make drones have UI button elements like modules comes out soon.
An easy fix for this is to simply check your keymapping in game and set some easy shortcut keys for drone control.
i only really use that little box in the corner for choosing which drones to launch. (usually sentries or hobgobs.)
As said above you still have to right click / launch every time you want to launch them, which is especially annoying and archaic. Unless they create a new shortcut system for that as well, like for guns ?
-
Amarr droneboats are op. Arbitrator can field 50m3 more drones than a Vexor, gets more flexibility and an EWar bonus.
Sentinel can pretty much solo any other frigate out there, cause 17km neuts, tracking disruptors and holy fuck Don't get me started on the size of its dronebay.
So don't complain about Amarr droneboats, if there's one thing they need, it's a nerf.
They are pretty good yes, though I would never dare to engage a vexor with an arbitrator myself. Depends of the vexor ofc, if the vexor has no guns and only med drones, I would yes, otherwise, I wouldnt.
A vexor can take less drones yes, but at the same time it can field heavy drones while the arbitrator cannot. Of course it means for the vexor that you have a very specialized anti cruiser fit that will have less spare drones if something happens. But a 2 heavy, 2 med and 1 light drone vexor were pretty unbeatable for me when I started FW, when gallente droneboats were still quite famous for their versatility (can take frigates, cruisers, everything in solo).
to be honest, the most effectve pvp vexor setup i have used is basically a small version of the neut-domi. no guns, just neuts and vamps in the highs, quite effective against amarr boats, and even against matari and caldari boats it means they can't AB or MWD around you. which can be important when fielding even a single heavy drone.
There are ships out there that will do cap warfare FAR more efficiently, though as far as a standard t1 cruiser goes, it's a pretty versatile fit. Relies on good droneskills though as it is easy to get bogged down in a stalemate situation.
-
All Hail the Mighty Attack Cruisers! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1936133#post1936133
Ok now on to the more anticipated cruisers in this rebalance pass. These are the faster and lighter of the fighting cruisers. They're mostly made from the former tier II cruisers, with the exception of the Thorax.
In some ways the gap between Attack and Combat cruisers mirror the gap in the frigate lines, although for cruisers we're not dividing the lines quite so sharply. These ships do have less EHP than the Combat cruisers that will be unveiled next, but you can still buffer tank them decently if you downgrade guns.
Alongside the announcement of these ships, we're also proposing some adjustment to the fitting requirements of certain medium sized turrets which will help us keep the fittings of several ships within better ranges as we go forward:
-Drop the powergrid usage of Focused Medium Pulse lasers by 5%
-Drop the powergrid usage of Heavy Pulse lasers by 10%
-Drop the powergrid usage of all cruiser sized beam lasers by 10%
-Drop the powergrid usage of all cruiser sized artillery by 10%
Details of the new gun fittings:
meta Name power cpu
0 Focused Medium Pulse Laser I 115 28
1 Focused Afocal Pulse Maser I 115 25
2 Focused Modal Pulse Laser I 115 23
3 Focused Anode Pulse Particle Stream I 115 26
4 Focused Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I 115 22
5 Focused Medium Pulse Laser II 127 29
8 Ammatar Navy Focused Medium Pulse Laser 127 22
8 Dark Blood Focused Medium Pulse Laser 127 22
8 Imperial Navy Focused Medium Pulse Laser 127 22
8 True Sansha Focused Medium Pulse Laser 127 22
0 Heavy Pulse Laser I 190 33
1 Heavy Afocal Pulse Maser I 190 29
2 Heavy Modal Pulse Laser I 190 28
3 Heavy Anode Pulse Particle Stream I 190 31
4 Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I 190 26
5 Heavy Pulse Laser II 209 35
6 Joust' Heavy Pulse Laser I 171 26
8 Ammatar Navy Heavy Pulse Laser 209 26
8 Dark Blood Heavy Pulse Laser 209 26
8 Imperial Navy Heavy Pulse Laser 209 26
8 True Sansha Heavy Pulse Laser 209 26
0 Focused Medium Beam Laser I 135 30
1 Focused Afocal Medium Maser I 135 27
2 Focused Modal Medium Laser I 135 25
3 Focused Anode Medium Particle Stream I 135 28
4 Focused Modulated Medium Energy Beam I 135 24
5 Focused Medium Beam Laser II 149 32
6 Crossbow' Focused Medium Beam Laser I 122 24
8 Ammatar Navy Focused Medium Beam Laser 149 24
8 Dark Blood Focused Medium Beam Laser 149 24
8 Imperial Navy Focused Medium Beam Laser 149 24
8 True Sansha Focused Medium Beam Laser 149 24
0 Heavy Beam Laser I 225 35
1 Heavy Afocal Maser I 225 31
2 Heavy Modal Laser I 225 29
3 Heavy Anode Particle Stream I 225 33
4 Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I 225 28
5 Heavy Beam Laser II 248 37
6 Arquebus' Heavy Beam Laser I 203 28
8 Ammatar Navy Heavy Beam Laser 248 28
8 Dark Blood Heavy Beam Laser 248 28
8 Imperial Navy Heavy Beam Laser 248 28
8 True Sansha Heavy Beam Laser 248 28
0 650mm Artillery Cannon I 180 27
1 650mm Medium Carbine Howitzer I 180 21
2 650mm Medium Gallium Cannon 180 25
3 650mm Medium Prototype Siege Cannon 180 22
4 650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I 180 24
5 650mm Artillery Cannon II 198 28
6 650mm Medium 'Jolt' Artillery I 162 23
8 Domination 650mm Artillery 180 24
8 Republic Fleet 650mm Artillery 180 24
0 720mm Artillery Cannon I 225 30
1 720mm Carbine Howitzer I 225 24
2 720mm Gallium Cannon 225 28
3 720mm Prototype Siege Cannon 225 25
4 720mm 'Scout' Artillery I 225 27
5 720mm Artillery Cannon II 248 32
6 720mm Medium 'Jolt' Artillery I 203 26
8 Domination 720mm Artillery 225 27
8 Republic Fleet 720mm Artillery 225 27
Now onto the ships themselves:
Omen:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire
Slot layout: 5 H, 3 M, 6 L (+1), 5 turrets
Fittings: 925 PWG (+195), 315 CPU (+65)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1700(+137) / 1600(+37)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1475(+225) / 526s(+79.75s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 225(+44) / 0.51(-0.05) / 11650000 / 5.6s (-0.5)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 40(+30) / 40(+30)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+10) / 300(+7) / 6(-1)
Sensor strength: 15 Radar (+2)
Signature radius: 125
Cargo capacity: 400(-50)
Caracal:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire
10% bonus to Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Velocity
Slot layout: 5 H, 5 M, 4 L (+2), 2 turrets, 5 launchers
Fittings: 630 PWG (+100), 430 CPU (+80)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1700(+137) / 1200(+145) / 1500(+171)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+187.5) / 445s(+63.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 225(+47) / 0.425 / 12910000 / 5.1s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 57.5km / 270(+28) / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Gravimetric (+1)
Signature radius: 135 (-10)
Cargo capacity: 450
Thorax:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed
Slot layout: 5 H, 4 M (+1), 5 L, 5 turrets
Fittings: 820 PWG, 330 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1700(+175)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+75) / 490s(+25.25s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235(+55) / 0.49(-0.0658) / 11280000 / 5.2s (-0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(-2.5) / 280(+21) / 6
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 130(-10)
Cargo capacity: 465(+200)
Stabber:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff
Slot layout: 6 H, 4 M (+1), 4 L (+1), 4 Turrets, 2 Launchers
Fittings: 715 PWG (+15), 340 CPU (+40)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(+15) / 1400(+150) / 1400(+111)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+137.5) / 427.5s(+46.25s) / 2.8(+0.01)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 285(+54) / 0.5(+0.02) / 11400000 / 5.3s (+0.2)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km(+7.5) / 320(+15) / 5
Sensor strength: 13 Ladar (+3)
Signature radius: 105
Cargo capacity: 420
Damn these look awesome. 4 low slots on the caracal, 4 mids on the thorax, and the stabber :O Nano Omen is also going to be glorious, and it should be able to fit a pretty decent armour tank too. Nice fitting buffs :3
-
The omen with all these new drones is going to be quite powerful.
I wonder if by reducing so much medium gun fitting requirements it is not going to boost indirectly BCs, that are already quite... OP on some points.
-
It was mentioned. Fozzie replied with this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1936247#post1936247
and now this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1936476&
Glorious!
Hello everyone! we've got another F&I balance thread for you all, covering tentative plans for missiles in the Winter expansion plus a hurricane fittings nerf that doesn't really need it's own thread.
I'd like to start off by reminding people that everything in these F&I threads is open to changes, however there are some significant balance issues being dealt with here that will need to be solved in one way or another. There are also some details that remain to be ironed out but we wanted to get these ideas out to you all as early as possible.
I'll start off with the orphan announcement. In the Attack Cruiser thread we also announced changes to medium gun fittings. We're going to be changing the hurricane at the same time but I wanted that thread to stay dedicated to the specific cruiser balance instead of getting derailed so we're moving that here.
Since we planning to reduce the powergrid needs of all medium artillery by 10% across the board, we are also planning to subtract 225 PG from the Hurricane, leaving it with a base powergrid of 1125.
The upshot is that fitting a full rack of 720s with a MWD and LSE and full mids and lows will require a RCUII and either an ACR or PG implant. Also fitting a standard shield autocane with neuts and LSE will require dropping a few guns down to 220mm.
The meat of this thread however is about missiles. There's a number of missile changes we have planned for the Winter, including the already announced buff to light missiles, a nerf to heavy missile range and damage to put them in line with other long range cruiser weapons, a rework of all T2 missiles so they become usable, and the expansion of both tracking enhancers and tracking disruptors into the realm of missiles.
Light Missiles
-Explosion velocity reduced from 50 to 40
-Damage increased by 10% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant light missiles, including FOF.
Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.
Tech Two Missiles
-At the moment Fury missiles at Light and Heavy sizes have a faster explosion velocity than precision missiles, we'll be fixing this defect as part of the changes.
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
Precision: Increase bonuses to explosion velocity and explosion radius, increase damage to match T1 missiles, reduce flight time slightly
Fury: Increase damage, increase penalties to explosion radius and velocity
Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
Rage: Reduce range significantly, increase damage slightly
Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
-Modify tracking enhancers and tracking computers to affect:
Max flight time
Explosion radius and explosion velocity
-Make TDs affect Missiles
Tracking speed script lowers explosion velocity and explosion radius
Optimal range script lowers flight time
Fuck yeah.
-
AML Caracal just got better (Right now you need AWU IV/V just to fit MWD + Dual LSE/ASB). Might even be possible to fit the standard DC + 3x BCU in the lows now too.
Edit: Also, TD on everything!
-
Read through the Heavy & T2 Missile stats & intro of TD effects on Missiles. Read Drake Nerf, only missile ship people seem to ever use for PvP. Is the Rook going to get a boost to be as effective as its other racial counterparts? Do these changes help/hurt the Cerberus? Etc etc etc.
Half of the Caldari line up is impacted by these changes.
-
Changes all look decent aside from the Thorax hulls' loss of the MWD bonus.
For a ship that's dependent on a microwarpdrive just to get into useful range, and then has weapons that use a fair amount of cap, that's a pretty hard stab to the balls.
And no, an extra mid for a -small- injector and a couple extra GJ in the capacitor don't really make up for it.
-
Changes all look decent aside from the Thorax hulls' loss of the MWD bonus.
For a ship that's dependent on a microwarpdrive just to get into useful range, and then has weapons that use a fair amount of cap, that's a pretty hard stab to the balls.
And no, an extra mid for a -small- injector and a couple extra GJ in the capacitor don't really make up for it.
They did also increase its speed a bit, dunno if thats enough to make a difference
-
It's not. MWDs use a lot of cap, and they nerf your capacitor right from the start. That was the whole point of that bonus - it offset that nerf and made it possible to use the MWD to close on a target that you weren't lucky enough to land on at zero and still have cap left over to shoot things with.
-
I have never had any trouble with my MWD on T1 cruisers to jump on someone that is not at range... It takes something like 1min+++ to deplete all the cap. If you are still running after a guy after 1 min, I don't know what you are thinking. :eek:
The changes look good to me, I am also worried for the Rook and similar heavy missile based hulls. However, that's fun because the drake just lost its ability to run L4 missions.
-
Blaster Moa works with MWD these days without enormous cap or MWD bonus. Tracking bonus as a substitute doesn't look terribad to me.
Regarding Missiles:
Seems nice. The range nerf can be offset with TC/TE, the damage nerf might be mitigated by better t2 missiles that don't destroy your sig/speed. It's certainly not unreasonable, especially since comparable cruiser/non tier3 battlecruiser dps on that range (50+km) won't be stellar either.
However, that's fun because the drake just lost its ability to run L4 missions.
T2 drake should be able to do it, maybe even better than before since he's not going to have a torpedo sized sig with furies and it's going to be easier to get rid of frigs. Even if you drop the DPS by 20% and disregard fury changes, I've done L4s in a Raven with crappy cruise missile skills and probably worse DPS in my early days.
-
Also TE affecting missiles is a steath buff for nagflar :P
Not just empty quoting.
-
Would be interesting to know if these changes affect all missiles or only guided ones.
Might make Torpedoes (and citadel missiles/torps) more interesting.
-
However, that's fun because the drake just lost its ability to run L4 missions.
T2 drake should be able to do it, maybe even better than before since he's not going to have a torpedo sized sig with furies and it's going to be easier to get rid of frigs. Even if you drop the DPS by 20% and disregard fury changes, I've done L4s in a Raven with crappy cruise missile skills and probably worse DPS in my early days.
[/quote]
Well yeah, my comment was a bit too radical. I just think the drake is going to get more limited DPS wise, not that he won't be able to run them anymore. I used to run L4s in crappy DPS BSes when I started too, and that took ages.
-
Well yeah, my comment was a bit too radical. I just think the drake is going to get more limited DPS wise, not that he won't be able to run them anymore. I used to run L4s in crappy DPS BSes when I started too, and that took ages.
Solution: use HAMs instead. Problem solved, once the Drake gets its resist/kindmg bonuses changed to ROF/missile velocity. You can hit 900 DPS with HAM drakes as it is. The changes would make the things no less dangerous than they are now - arguably, they would make it more so.
-
Anyone know if the TDs effect unguided missiles, like HAMs and rockets, or if they effect everything?
-
You can hit 900 DPS with HAM drakes as it is.
Not really, no. But I agree that it is much more DPS than with heavy missiles.
-
You can hit 900 DPS with HAM drakes as it is.
Not really, no. But I agree that it is much more DPS than with heavy missiles.
Yes, really. Inara flies one. I've seen it in use, and used one myself.
-
You can hit 900 DPS with HAM drakes as it is.
Not really, no. But I agree that it is much more DPS than with heavy missiles.
Yes, really. Inara flies one. I've seen it in use, and used one myself.
*says Morwen's story is cool and calls her a bro*
On the topic itself, I think CCP are making some good moves towards a 'blind' area. Once we see these actually in effect and figure out any imbalances those will bring, I hope they'll be tweaked accordingly. But my point is in general they haven't done a :psyccp:.
Yet.
-
You can hit 900 DPS with HAM drakes as it is.
Not really, no. But I agree that it is much more DPS than with heavy missiles.
Yes, really. Inara flies one. I've seen it in use, and used one myself.
No, really. Check your values again.
-
You can hit 900 DPS with HAM drakes as it is.
Not really, no. But I agree that it is much more DPS than with heavy missiles.
Yes, really. Inara flies one. I've seen it in use, and used one myself.
No, really. Check your values again.
It's actually 894dps, and they're not joking. I love flying the Drake properly (http://i.imgur.com/Kfez3.jpg).
EDIT: And for those who prefer 6% implants (http://i.imgur.com/MJnua.jpg).
-
I always mission with overheated guns.
But point taken, yes.
-
Wait... people use Drakes for missions? Why would you do that?
I was talking about for PvP, and I always go into a fight with the green bar flashing.
-
Oh, I agree on that, and there HAMs are a very nice choice. But Lyn's concern was that it makes running L4s mission impossible/impossibly slow. Pointing at HAMs for missions is (imho) questionable, although the heavy missile changes make them more attractive in comparison.
And for PvE, the hyper dps is as practical as the lovely 1k dps ac cane. ;)
-
Wait... people use Drakes for missions? Why would you do that?
Well, back when I used to mission it started as a challenge and then became "one ship to do it all" by using a PvP-fit HM Drake to solo L4s. Always ready for what comes up. I'd actually be a bit ticked off if I could no longer do that.
(Although I'd need to fly again for it to really matter.)
-
Well yes of course, I forgot the tendancy people have to always take the extremes as reference... Because I bet we can get to 139839348 DPS canes and the likes with pristines implants, boosters and officer mods. :roll:
Anyway, a mission drake needs at least a little tank and are mostly used by noobies. It is a quite usefull/wonderful L4s ship for noobs that are still unable to use large guns and large ships.
Anyone know if the TDs effect unguided missiles, like HAMs and rockets, or if they effect everything?
Why everyone keep calling these unguided missiles ? It's not like bombs or moon probes that fly straightforward without following the target...
-
Why everyone keep calling these unguided missiles ? It's not like bombs or moon probes that fly straightforward without following the target...
Because there's a skill that references them, and only affects Guided missiles. HAMs, Rockets and Torps all have an 'unguided' flag that means they don't get the explosion velocity bonus from said skill.
-
Yeah I knew they did not get these skill bonuses, but I didn't know they used a word of such little sense for those. :/
Maybe they are not guided by the tracking computer of the ship and have their own onboard tracking devices is what it means ? Or the opposite ?
-
They just wanted a fancy sounding name to differentiate these types I'd say.
But it's now confirmed that these TE/TC/TD changes affect all missiles, guided and unguided. May the Phoenix finally rise?
-
Milo kind of missed the semantics there, there's no 'unguided' flag.
It's just that a skill called 'Guided Missile Precision' only affects light, heavy and cruise missiles, so some people started calling those not affected by it 'unguided'.
From first hand experience regarding the nomenclature, I think most people still classify them as 'long range' and 'short range' missile groups.
-
Milo kind of missed the semantics there, there's no 'unguided' flag.
It's just that a skill called 'Guided Missile Precision' only affects light, heavy and cruise missiles, so some people started calling those not affected by it 'unguided'.
From first hand experience regarding the nomenclature, I think most people still classify them as 'long range' and 'short range' missile groups.
Yeah. It would have made more sense to me were the short range missiles not TD-able, because hitting them with a TD just makes them useless. Everyone fits TDs with optimal range scripts, Gallenteans suddenly become win.
-
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1943476#post1943476
Hello everyone! We're finally ready to open up a test server with some of the balance changes for the Winter expansion.
TL:DR
Duality will be open from tonight through the weekend
It will be updated with the rebalanced frigates and destroyers for Winter
Missile and Cruiser changes are not on this build
We want to focus the testing on small ships in 6-CZ49 for this event
From 16:00 to 18:00 evetime on September 20th Devs will be active for you to PVP against
Instructions for connecting to Duality can be found below
Please put your feedback in this thread
We are opening the Duality server up to the public from now through the end of the weekend, with all the rebalanced frigate and destroyer changes. The server does not have the more recent changes like the cruisers, new destroyers, ORE frigate or changes to missiles larger than lights.
The purpose of this event is to give you all a chance to test out the frigate and destroyer changes and let us know what you think of them. Towards that goal, we'll only be seeding small ships and we ask people to keep the test areas clear of anything that could discourage that testing.
If you would like to discuss the balance changes you can join the channel "Duality" ingame.
We'll have some devs active on the test server to play with you here and there throughout the whole testing period, but we are also holding a "Shoot a dev" event on Thursday the 20th of September, from 16:00 to 18:00 evetime. We devs will run some gangs of frigates and destroyers in 6-CZ49 ready to take on all comers. I expect you'll completely rock us but it will be fun all around!
The procedure to access Duality is very similar to Buckingham:
Quote:
To access Duality copy your main Eve install to a different folder.
Then create a shortcut to that folder's launcher (eve.exe).
Right click on that shortcut on the desktop, go into "Properties" and in the "Target" field put a space after the last entry in the field and type /server:87.237.38.60 to force the launcher to point towards Duality.
Once you run that shortcut the launcher will download the most recent patch for Duality and get you ready to connect.
Changes that will be on Duality:
[Winter] Existing destroyer rebalancing
[Winter] More Combat Frigates!
[Winter] EW Frigate Rebalance
[Winter] Support Frigates
[Winter] Exploration Frigate Rebalance
As well as the first round of ASB tweaks
TL:DR
Duality will be open from tonight through the weekend
It will be updated with the rebalanced frigates and destroyers for Winter
Missile and Cruiser changes are not on this build
We want to focus the testing on small ships in 6-CZ49 for this event
From 16:00 to 18:00 evetime on September 20th Devs will be active for you to PVP against
Instructions for connecting to Duality can be found below
Please put your feedback in this thread
Go shoot the devs!
-
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1943554&%20#post1943554
Hi all! As mentioned in this thorough post by CCP Fozzie, we're going to have Duality up and running for a few days to test some of the stuff we're doing in the winter expansion.
One of those things are making adjustments to the Ancillary Shield Boosters. There is a version now on Duality with different stats, we would love for you guys to test them out with us to give us a better indication of whether these adjustments are the right one or not.
The adjustments are:
Reducing capacity in all four ASBs so they can now fit 7 normal ones (9 navy ones)
Upping the duration of X-Large ASB from 4 to 5 seconds
Adjusting the capacitor need of all four ASBs considerably
Again, we're still in the process of figuring out the best way to adjust the ASBs, so don't take the current stats as the final word on what will happen in the winter expansion. Hopefully this is just the first test of many with you guys.
Finally, there are a few other module adjustments we're contemplating, but are not testing right now, so more module testing is likely in the future.
Thanks in advance,
CCP SoniClover on behalf of Team Super Friends
-
Cruisers!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1993591#post1993591
Hello everyone! We've got the final set of T1 Cruisers here for you all. The Combat Cruisers are designed as frontline warships with both solid damage and good staying power.
These ships got somewhat less dramatic changes than the others. The average EHP of the set is only 2% higher than the average EHP of the old Tier 3 cruisers. Their main advantages over the other t1 cruisers are in tanking and a more robust capacitor pool.
Maller:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage
5% bonus to all Armor Resistances
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 3 M, 6 L, 5 turrets
Fittings: 1000 PWG (+100), 280 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-168) / 2100(+225) / 1700(-19)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1550(+50) / 515s(-22.5s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 205(+41) / 0.56(-0.045) / 11550000 / 6.1s (-0.4)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km / 280(+10) / 6
Sensor strength: 16 Radar (+2)
Signature radius: 130
Cargo capacity: 480 (+200)
Moa:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
5% bonus to shield resistances
Slot layout: 6 H, 4 M, 4 L, 5 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 800 PWG (+20), 375 CPU (+15)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2100(+225) / 1200(-129) / 1500(-24)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1425(+50) / 475s(-16.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / 0.54 / 11720000 / 5.9s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 260(+7) / 7
Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric (+1)
Signature radius: 135
Cargo capacity: 450 (+200)
Vexor:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+1), 4 turrets
Fittings: 800 PWG (+125), 300 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1100(-73) / 2000(+515) / 2000(+515)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+200) / 482.5s(+36.25s) / 3 (+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 215(+46) / 0.6(+0.03) / 10310000 / 5.8s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 100
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km / 280(+4) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric (+2)
Signature radius: 145 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 480
Rupture:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L, 4 turrets, 2 launchers
Fittings: 860 PWG, 350 CPU (+25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(-63) / 1800(+159) / 1600(+37)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1275(+25) / 425s(-21.25s) / 3(+0.2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240(+48) / 0.54 / 11650000 / 5.9s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 30 / 30
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km(+5) / 290(+8) / 6(+1)
Sensor strength: 15 Ladar (+3)
Signature radius: 125 (-5)
Cargo capacity: 450 (+150)
Let us know what you think!
4 mids on the vexor and rupture. Insert all nano, all the time
-
Say byebye to our (broken, boring and OP as hell) dual-neut-rupture overlords (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080707202833/eve/images/8/8b/Rupture.jpg)
and welcome our new overlord, the best assault frigate in the game (http://phase.org/images/Eve/shiptypes_png/256_256/11365.png)
Edit: Oh, and, yes Ava, this does mean you will run into me flying the most sexy ship ever more often in the future :cube:
-
Also big news about ewar and missile changes: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1990646#post1990646
Hey again everyone. I've updated the OP with the version 2.0 of these proposals after the discussion in this thread, with the CSM and with our whole team here.
The main goal of the revisions is to ensure that we don't have too many balls in the air at once affecting the same modules. We're delaying the tracking mod and tracking disruptor changes until the first release settles and since those changes would have been a general buff to all missiles we're adjusting the severity of the HM nerf and making direct changes to the previously "unguided" missiles to compensate.
Google doc with the numbers for the affected missiles: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtfS55wysRHHdGQzQjBoeVRSUFRQVjF3QV84S1d2SFE
Changes are underlined in the OP, and are:
We're dropping the Tracking mod and disruptor changes to missiles from this release. We're adjusting the heavy missile change to only have a 10% damage nerf but also include a 12% explosion radius nerf. The velocity of heavy missiles is also being increased by a larger amount, with flight time adjusting to keep the overall range change the same while ensuring higher applied damage in the real world and less wasted volleys. As well we are looking at making the Guided Missile Precision skill affect everything* and dropping HAM PG requirements by 10% (Still a little bit higher than heavy missiles but closer).
I have also included some actual details in the T2 missile change section.
(inserted by kala: Tech Two Missiles
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
-Precision: Increase bonuses to explosion velocity to +20%, increase damage to match T1 missiles
-Fury: Increase damage bonus to +35%, reduce flight time to 50% of T1, unify penalties to explosion radius (+72%) and velocity (-16%) across the sizes
-Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
-Rage: Increase damage bonus to +35%, Unify flight time to match T1, unify velocity penalty (-16.7%), unify penalty to explosion velocity (-14%), increase penalty to explosion radius (+72%)
)
Finally Ytterbium has already announced some adjustments to light missile fittings to help balance the new destroyers, expect a slight decrease to the new Kestrel fittings to compensate.
Raw changes: All Missiles
Increase missile acceleration so that real range is much closer to the client assumed range of flight-time*speed against a stationary target. This means a slight range buff for all missiles, and missiles will act in a way that is more intuitive to newer players.
Short Range Missiles
Change the Guided Missile Precision skill, as well as all associated implants and rigs to affect all subcap missiles
Reduce HAM launcher power grid requirements by 10%
Light Missiles
-Decrease all Light Missile Launcher fitting requirements by 2pg and 4cpu
-Explosion radius reduced from 50 to 40
-Damage increased by 10% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant light missiles, including FOF.
Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 35%
-Base velocity increased by 14.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 10% (rounded to closest digit)
-Explosion radius increased by 12%
-Affects all variant heavy missiles, including FOF.
Tech Two Missiles
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
-Precision: Increase bonuses to explosion velocity to +20%, increase damage to match T1 missiles
-Fury: Increase damage bonus to +35%, reduce flight time to 50% of T1, unify penalties to explosion radius (+72%) and velocity (-16%) across the sizes
-Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
-Rage: Increase damage bonus to +35%, Unify flight time to match T1, unify velocity penalty (-16.7%), unify penalty to explosion velocity (-14%), increase penalty to explosion radius (+72%)
Tracking/Range Mods and Ewar
Tracking mod and disruptor changes moved out of this release until the first set of changes settles a bit
As far as I can tell, this simply means dualweb drakes will no longer be able to completely fuck over gangs of assault frigs. yay.
*Skill at precision missile homing. Proficiency at this skill increases the accuracy of a fired missile's exact point of impact, resulting in greater damage to small targets. 5% decreased factor of signature radius for light, heavy and cruise missile explosions per level of skill.
This now works on HAMS and Torps. o_O useful torp raven/phoon? Say it aint so! :D
-
Say byebye to our (broken, boring and OP as hell) dual-neut-rupture overlords (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080707202833/eve/images/8/8b/Rupture.jpg)
and welcome our new overlord, the best assault frigate in the game (http://phase.org/images/Eve/shiptypes_png/256_256/11365.png)
Edit: Oh, and, yes Ava, this does mean you will run into me flying the most sexy ship ever more often in the future :cube:
Don't be too hasty. Yes, no more dual neuts, but buffer armour tanked, dualweb ruptures with dual 1800mms and a medium neut. Expect it.
-
And while I'm doing this.. Some general Qand A from FOzzie in relation to the most commonly asked questions about the missile/ewar changes: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029
I'm going to cover a few of the themes I'm seeing in the feedback so far in a Q&A format. I don't have any adjustments to the proposal to announce at this time, but there are a few tweaks I'm mulling over at the moment.
The damage per second of heavy missile ships like the Drake seems low, why are you making it even lower?
I believe the main source of disagreement here comes from comparisons between Heavy Missiles (a long range weapon platform) and short range weapons like autocannons or blasters. Once upon a time Heavy Missiles were the only medium missile system, and therefore shared features from both close range and long range weapons. Later Heavy Assault Missiles were introduced and were quite good, but Heavy Missiles still overshadowed them since they did similar damage at close range and HMs had the advantage of steller long range performance. There are legitimate problems with many long range weapon systems at the medium size, but the fact that people have gotten used to comparing Heavy Missiles with short range guns should be taken as one of the signs that Heavies are far too good.
Why are you nerfing the weapon system when the real problem is two ships?
It is true that the use of heavy missiles is very strongly concentrated on the Drake and Tengu at this time. There are some problems with those ships that will need to be solved in time, and we also need to make ships like the Caracal, Cerb and Nighthawk more viable with Heavy Missiles. But doing that rebalance requires a stable foundation to build upon, and the truth is that Heavy Missiles were skewing the balance of everything they touched. The fact that the Drake is so dominant at long range damage when it has no range bonus, and the weakest damage bonus we give ships (5% per level to just one damage type) makes balancing through the ships themselves unfeasible. Once we get Heavy Missiles to some semblance of balance we can begin the work of making sure each individual ship is viable without having to go back and redo our work right away to compensate for a midstream weapon change.
Why nerf things when you could buff things instead?
When we are balancing in a game like Eve we always need to be concious of the danger presented by power creep. In some games where the progression is tied to ever advancing gear stats power creep isn't a big issue as it is built into the whole premise of the game. In a sandbox like Eve player advancement is tied to individual freeform goals and we need to make sure that the tools available are both interesting and balanced. Any time we buff something in Eve, we are nerfing every other item in the game slightly by extension. In a case like this we believe that the best course of action is to adjust the Heavy Missiles downwards to achieve balance.
It seems obvious that these changes are biased in favour of the Goons! Is that true?
Nope, we make balance decisions based on the ships and modules themselves not political blocs in game.
It seems obvious that these changes are biased against the Goons! Is that true?
Nope, we make balance decisions based on the ships and modules themselves not political blocs in game.
Can CCP reimburse skillpoints to people who have trained missiles?
In a MMO like Eve balance does change from time to time and skills will not be reimbursed unless their use is being removed from the game. If you believe that these changes make missiles useless then let us know why in as much detail as possible and if we agree the solution won't be to reimburse skills, it will be to adjust the proposal so that missiles are no longer made useless. Heavy missiles were the first medium weapon system I ever trained when I started playing Eve, and I have made excellent use of them through the years so I understand how good it feels to have skills invested in an extremely powerful weapon system. Most people who have been playing the game for a while can name a few times it has felt like their playstyle has been nerfed, because by definition the overpowered areas of the game tend to attract a lot of people. The four most heavily used medium weapons in the game are all Heavy Missile launcher variants, as well as seven of the top eleven. Whenever we need to change something this powerful it will always be painful because so many players will have done the smart thing and flocked to the best game mechanic. If it feels like CCP nerfs you a lot that's just a sign that you're doing it right and getting good at staying on top of the best trends so pat yourself on the back.
Are you even open to changing any of this or are you just planning to ignore everyone?
We are a long way from release and none of these proposals are set in stone. What I will say is that we are set in the belief that heavy missiles do need changes to bring them closer in power to other long range weapons. The details of how that happens is definitely up for debate.
-
gotta give it to CCP Fozzie (aka raivi) he does get the right idea of weapons + ships and dives head-on onto the issues of balance.
-
/me approves
-
I'm feeling especially squirtly about the tracking comp/enhancer changes. There are a few fits that immediately come to mind...
-
The Arbitrator blobs. Dear god, the Arbitrator blobs...