Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => Moderation Discussion => Topic started by: Silver Night on 18 Apr 2010, 16:57
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Proposing a new rule to make the trolling thing crystal clear (no walking the line without quite crossing).
Rule (as stolen from the PA forums):
Don't troll.
This has a working definition of "attempting to be as annoying as possible while still technically obeying the rules," and it's not the way to go about getting attention. Attempting to derail threads, posting off-topic bullshit, or flame-baiting are all verboten.
I realize essentially the same thing is already in the FAQ, but I think making it clear through the repetition, and in a short and sweet form couldn't hurt.
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./signed for support
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I cannot possibly fathom somebody saying "that's a terrible rule" without, you know, outing themselves as somebody who wants an excuse to be annoying. Sure, they may come back and complain in some way about discretion or favoritism, but that will amount to the same thing.
tl;dr: /signed
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Supported
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Can't hurt.
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+1
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Sounds fine by me.
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I am supporting the adoption of the rule I suggested that you adopt.
Like a boss.
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I am supporting the adoption of the rule I suggested that you adopt.
Like a boss.
I'm trying to learn the important things about being in charge.
Like taking all the credit.
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:lol:
As soon as you update the rules sticky I'll update the page in the topmenu
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Done
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I am supporting the adoption of the rule I suggested that you adopt.
Like a boss.
I'm trying to learn the important things about being in charge.
Like taking all the credit.
It was actually probably clever not to tell people I suggested it :P
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Hmm, can strong language be considered flame-baiting.
Because of the nature of language all people have different emotional connotations linked to different words, while you may not have any emotional content connected to words like 'fuck', 'cocksmoker', 'buttpirate', 'cumsmuggler', 'mouth breathing knuckledragger' and 'mom', someone else that is reading your output may have.
Which will colour their response to you, where they may use words that you find to have emotional connotations that make you kick it up a notch.
See where I am going towards?
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Yeah, good point Lall. Profanity and strong language are really culturally specific in their context and acceptability. While I wouldn't like to end up with a 'never say fuck on the forum' rule, it might be worth adding something to the FAQ about 'occasional profanity used for emphasis is one thing, but please be aware that others reading your words don't share the same cultural background as you."
What do people think?
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The EVE answer for this issue would be 'Harden the Fuck Up'.
Personally I think that people should strive to read posts linked to their interests with a grain of salt.
Try to find out what the person that has done the post about.
Not to get caught up in words.
'More wars have been started from someone taking offense than someone giving offense.'
I'm about to go on a ramble, so I guess I will head out for brekkies...
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The EVE answer for this issue would be 'Harden the Fuck Up'.
But all are welcome here, even the tenderest of special flowers! :)
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The function of this rule is not to cover all cases that may or may not be flame-baiting or trolling.
Instead, it is to make clear to community members that hiding behind a ruleset will not be tolerated, and the perception that a user is attempting to hide behind a ruleset in order to avoid mod action will be swiftly acted upon. The likelihood that the action in question will be reversible and transparent is so high as to nearly assure it, and thus damage from being overly proactive is mitigated down to the near-nonexistant.
The rule reserves the...I would almost say right, but it's not exactly what I'd go for; they're mods. They have protocols.
This rule reserves the means for future moderators to make flexible and active judgements on the spot when users act up without having to codify what stepping over a line is in all cases. It strengthens the institution of proactive, transparent, and reversible moderation with a heavy dose of personal judgement.
The mods are our peers, or so we hope. As such, they get to judge us and express their opinions just as much as we get to give input on forum rules.
Yeah, that sounds about right maybe?
What do you think?
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Re: Cia's question, I appreciate this. I rarely resort to "obscene" language, and when I do, it's for specific effect. And when someone else does, I interpret it as a way of hardening their stance. "I don't care if this offends you."
HTFU is great and I drop it in many contexts, but it doesn't particularly fit the mission of this site as i understand it. Of course, crafting a relevant "rule" could prove very difficult, but certainly a guideline that reminds people to take into account that their choice of words will influence how others interpret their statements would fit.
TL;DR: if you tell somebody to "HTFU", don't get all surprised when they assume you're hostile.
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words like 'fuck', 'cocksmoker', 'buttpirate', 'cumsmuggler', 'mouth breathing knuckledragger' and 'mom',
F-bombs are one thing. All the rest of that is namecalling/direct insults (unless someone's mother happens to also post on the forum, I guess?)... doesn't really add anything useful to a discussion.
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What about non-directed hostility of that sort? Or at least, not directed at other forum members. Personally, if I detect a large amount of anger, whether or not it's "real" and whether or not it's directed at me, I shy away from the discussion.
So thread titles that have a particularly unfriendly thrust may not encourage widespread conversation, despite the poster's actual intentions.
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Personally (that is, this isn't any kind of 'official' answer), I think that MMOs and role-play in general are more than just 'games'; they're hobbies. Checkers is a game.. two people can sit down, play a game, share a laugh and be done with it. People generally don't get too emotionally invested in games. Hobbies, on the other hand, bring out a lot of passion in most people. Folks can get quite a bit more worked up over something they invest a lot of time and energy into.
I understand why a heated thread could be a turn-off to some readers, even if none of the rules are technically violated. At the same time, I don't feel that a hobbyist's passion should be stifled. I would suggest that if something seems a bit over the top, even if you can't point to an item in the Rules about why it's "out of line", if you genuinely believe that a thread is getting out of control then click the report button and be as clear in your description about why you're reporting it as you possibly can be. We'll all see it and even if no direct action is taken, it will draw our attention to a thread that might otherwise not have been noticed as potentially problematic (nearly a thousand posts in three days - oy vey!)
We are not going to be "outing" people who click the Report button, so there should be no need to worry about forum revenge or that sort of thing. We're also keen enough to spot it if someone decides to abuse the Report button with frivolous report spam, so anyone who worries that they might be targeted by such may rest assured that a Report will not automatically result in moderation. There will be no "winning the forums by Report Wars." :)
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RP and MMOGs in general are of course hobbies, and forum dramaz generally don't drive most players away from the games they support. But the drama can drive members away from specific communities (and I refer here not just to Chatsubo, since most of us have seen the same effect in other places).
As much as I intend to continue to participate here, I don't yet feel like I should publicize it to folks with an interest in EVE immersion but not a strong connection to the self-selected "EVE RP community". I don't yet feel that the site has settled down to that point, because friends of mine would likely show up and after thirty minutes say "omg that place is batsh*t insane, wtf is wrong with Casi?!"
Hopefully that will change sooner rather than later.
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F-bombs are one thing. All the rest of that is namecalling/direct insults (unless someone's mother happens to also post on the forum, I guess?)... doesn't really add anything useful to a discussion.
Sounds like a challenge :D
I've already used them in the context of adding something useful to a discussion.
So did yo:D
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Fuck.
Lall, the question moderators will likely ask themselves in invoking rule eleven when they review the posts of a potential troublemaker is whether that user's purpose to make trouble or be disruptive without breaking the rules.
No specifics are reserved because one cannot cover all specifics. Goading people into trying to do so for the sake of humoring you is...less fun than a lot of other shit you could be doing. I promise, man.
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I don't really think meta-profanity, in this sense, is what Hav and SN intended, agreed.