Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => Moderation Discussion => Topic started by: Graelyn on 31 Oct 2010, 05:31
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http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=1291.0
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8923/jackiechanhatesrushhour.jpg)
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For as long as i remember, it has always been a derogatory term, and if used in certain situations, an insult.
So yeah, kinda.
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Depends how it's used. In that context, I think it was derogatory.
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Yep. It's an insult. Only exception I'd give is if it's used in a self-mocking or mocking-the-stereotype manner... in which case it's just being used to make fun of the fact it's an insult.
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http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=1291.0
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8923/jackiechanhatesrushhour.jpg)
I see your Jackie Chan and raise you a Welch! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqQD4dzVkwk)
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Yes, given the context, I'd say it was. Particularly given the rest of the comment. If it was tongue-in-cheek, it didn't come across that way (to several people, I should note).
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I am confused.
Is the offence the term "carebear", or the comment itself? Would the comment have been modded if it used the term "industrialist" or "high sec dweller" instead?
Or are people so sensitive that the term "carebear" = "fagtard" and is ipso facto barred from use?
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Well, to me if someone ever starts talking about 0.0 politics = fagtard.
If someone talks about how many kills they have had that week = fagtard.
If someone talks about how some fitting is better than other and rules over them all = fagtard.
Someone links to their setup that is full of officer mods = fagtard.
Talk about the IGS = fagtard.
Talk about internal politics of any other faction than what I am interested in = fagtard.
OOC talk about an RP event on a RP channel = fagtard.
Backbiting people that I know are good folk = fagtard.
'URDOINITRONG' about someones RP = fagtard.
Hell, I find even someone using a derogatory term like fagtard insulting because it bases itself on two genetic qualities that cannot be changed by the person that has them, homosexuality and mental retardation.
I find that a comedian can put what I am aiming at much better than I can.
Political Correctness and Offence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-JxA9Rvs8I)
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Perhaps I should clarify what I was meaning.
I dont want to imply that carebears are fucktards, or debate the meaning of either of the terms. I was enquiring whether the term "carebear" is considered here to be a term that is automatically off limits and is automattically offensive irrespective of its context or use, in the same way the term fucktard is.
The impression I get from the comment being moded is that it is the term itself, and not the context it is used in, that is offensive.
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When someone uses the term in a dismissive manner, followed by a call for violencing the boat of the subject (I'm not so daft as to think that comment was literal ;) ), then it appears negative to me. As I noted, and as others noted, the context made it appear offensive to a number of readers. I acknowledge it could have been used in a tongue-in-cheek, harmless manner, but that wasn't clear in this case. And given the sort of posting culture we want to encourage on this site, moderation seemed like the best choice in this particular case.
Nothing above should be taken as prejudice for future use of the term. And it wouldn't be appropriate to go laying down a bunch of specific rules about using this term or that term, and how and when.
Posters should use their best judgment. But if you snicker while your mouse hovers over the "submit" button, you might want to pause and reconsider.
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As one of the people who reported that post, I found it insulting mainly because the only content of the post was calling the OP a carebear. If the poster had used carebear in some context as a synonym for say industrialist or a high-sec dweller (which are not the same thing, by the way, so for clarity if might have been a good idea to use the exact term anyway), I might have felt differently. But when the poster's only point seemed to be to call the OP something and suggest explodering, yes, it felt as a flame to me. Possibly one meant as a harmless joke, sure, given who posted it ;), but still a non-helpful comment of possibly insulting nature.
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Great comedian Lallara, lol. I don't find carebear offensive at all, CCP devs have used it in the past at least once. Also, I think there was a hint of sarcasm in that post, what with "BURN THE WITCH" at the end.
Why is this even an issue?
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Multiple people felt the post was insulting.
The post was reported.
The moderation team agreed.
The post was moved.
Discussion ensued. Some disagreed with the judgement of the moderators, others agreed.
The moderation team does not refuse to take action unless they are confident that every single reader on the board will voice unanimous approval.
The FAQ (http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?action=page;id=4) may shed some further light on why this is an issue.
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Great comedian Lallara, lol. I don't find carebear offensive at all, CCP devs have used it in the past at least once. Also, I think there was a hint of sarcasm in that post, what with "BURN THE WITCH" at the end.
Do you imply that if something is sarcastic, it cannot be an insult? ;)
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Great comedian Lallara, lol. I don't find carebear offensive at all, CCP devs have used it in the past at least once. Also, I think there was a hint of sarcasm in that post, what with "BURN THE WITCH" at the end.
Why is this even an issue?
Just because they're Devs does not mean they are not human. I've seen threads moved to RP sections that were clearly troll threads on the grounds that it's "RP and inappropriate for CAOD", I've seen RP threads moved that were perfectly legitimate RP from the Summit to Events and Fiction, and I've petitioned some of those decisions and had them reversed. I've even gotten Dev posts on the forums changed by reporting them and in some cases removed for abusive language (that happened a couple years ago).
Point being, just because the Devs do it does not make it any less offensive to the offended, and it doesn't automatically make it right under the rules. As my momma always said, "do as I say, not as I do."
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I don't think that "carebear" is an insult, any more than "blue collar worker" is, or any other occupational terms. It's a description of a type of occupation in Eve, and often in other MMORPGs, and there are a lot of players who proudly claim the title.
Now, about it being in the context of an insult...I generally support the moderation on this board, but I think that trying to discern the "tone" of someone in a written medium is largely suspect. Are we going to start removing posts because we thought someone said something in a snotty voice?
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There's been other instances when stuff has been reported as potentially insulting, but not removed. I'd not fret too much about the moderators overdoing it, before you actually see severe, repeated overdoing.
You can use words that are not insulting in themselves to insult something, that much is obvious. If we start from the assumption that since carebear is not an insult word, anything that uses carebear is therefore not an insult, all we need is to get a bit creative with word-usage and we can pretty much flame anything and anyone.
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If we start from the assumption that since carebear is not an insult word, anything that uses carebear is therefore not an insult, all we need is to get a bit creative with word-usage and we can pretty much flame anything and anyone.
This seems like a bit of a non sequitur to me...
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If we start from the assumption that since carebear is not an insult word, anything that uses carebear is therefore not an insult, all we need is to get a bit creative with word-usage and we can pretty much flame anything and anyone.
This seems like a bit of a non sequitur to me...
Which part? If you mean the "carebear is not an insult word, therefore anything that uses carebear is not an insult", yes, I agree with you completely. It's a completely botched reasoning, but that hasn't stopped something like it having been used in this thread. :)
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Oh, sorry, I misunderstood then.
Let's also please keep in mind that the post that got moved recently was a bit of a necro. As far as I'm personally concerned, this was a done deal weeks ago.
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If carebear is an insult, so is pirate, PvPer, ganker, griefer, scammer, and anything else that entails not being nice to everyone, anyone, and anything other than red crosses on the overview.
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Silence, Pirate.
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Prepare your brainmouths for my Sennbabble! >:U
The way I see it, "carebear" is to the EVE/gaming community, as "nerd" is to modern society.
If you want to joke with your other computer-gaming, MW2-grinding, D&D-optimizing, anime convention-going, Cowboy Bebop-watching, watched-Titan-AE-ninety-times-cause-its-so-boss friends. You might use "nerd" as a term of endearment. Case in point: "We're planning to get together at Brian's house, watch Atlantis, play some Melee, and just be total nerds for the night."
Nothing insulting there. Now, getting caught by your childhood nemeses in the school cafeteria discussing the finer points of Firefly... well, now you're a nerd, with a negative emphasis.
Same bit with carebear. In certain instances, you might be making fun of your friend for missioning/mining in hisec to make some isk. You might be taking a friendly jab at the one guy in your corp who refuses to PvP, has only hauler losses on his record, but still has fun and contributes to the corp through his intensive indy skills. You see where I'm going with this.
Now, if you're minding your business in lowsec, running an annex, and just that once forgot to check d-scan when a neutral popped up, and several minutes later you're in your pod watching nine Machs, fifteen Vagas and a Curse disappear as you warp to safety, and you happen to mention how you feel about the situation, you know what you're in for in local.
"LOL U MAD CAREBEAR!?!11"
Anywho, point I'm trying to make is, sometimes we're going to mean things in jest, and they'll be taken out of context. It happens a lot. Thats why moderators are here.
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Silence, nerd.
/me goes off to watch Titan AE again because it most certainly is a 'boss' movie.
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Silence, nerd.
/me goes off to watch Titan AE again because it most certainly is a 'boss' movie.
You bet your nerd ass it is! Drej ain't shit! >:U
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We all know the only real insult in EVE is "Jovian."
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I think that the term 'Care bear' was initially intended as an insult, but it has been co-opted and accepted by the 'Carebear' high-sec Empire dwelling community in much the same way that the words 'Fag' and 'N*gger' have been co-opted and adopted by the Gay and African-American community.
We should also consider that even the most hard boiled bad ass Pirate usually has 'Non combat' alts to do his/her hauling and mission running in High sec to help finance their combat, so these players are also 'carebears' at least some of the time.
However, I remember seeing a Youtube video about one Miner in low-sec who 'loses it' when a pair of Pirates blow up his ship. In a real life phone call, the furious Miner calls one of the Pirates a 'carebear'. The incredulous Pirate says "Dude, I am not the carebear. YOU are the carebear. Do you even know what a carebear is?"
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To drag up an old[ish] post, I'd like to call you all carebears.
Carebear was coined many moons ago as an insult to non-combatant gamers. To some it's the most terrible word you can inflict on them, whilst to others it's a nonevent. Really, don't get your panties in a bunch when people call you a carebear, it's a word, and I usually smile and say 'I love you too.'
Carebears are cute and cuddley, so why not take it as a compliment? They're obviously so enamoured with you that they have to prove it by calling you something snuggley and sweet.
My 0.3ISK worth.