Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => CCP Public Library => Topic started by: Julianus Soter on 02 Dec 2011, 01:14
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http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=01-12-11
Blocks.
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Gister continued, "And speaking of alliances, I've heard that those ragtag things will now be allowed to join the empire wars en masse. Which is wonderful! That's all they're good for, fighting and war. Best to put their focus on something like that, and not have them getting in the way of people trying to do proper business."
oh really now
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The new goods-sorting program for Customs Offices in Crucible (http://firstpersontetris.com).
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Ew, ew, ew, ew. I'm sorry, but once you let even the smallest alliances into FW, you open up the mechanics to all kinds of exploitation and generally make life quite uncomfortable for the people who actually care about it.
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Ew, ew, ew, ew. I'm sorry, but once you let even the smallest alliances into FW, you open up the mechanics to all kinds of exploitation and generally make life quite uncomfortable for the people who actually care about it.
I agree. This is one thing that CCP should never listen to the masses for. I'd love the idea of alliances in FW (EM, UK, CVA, I-RED and so on...) but let's be realistic here - entities like PL and Goons will be lining up to join x faction or other, and that will frankly crash FW, badly.
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"Even" EM, U'K or CVA joining a militia will drastically change the war zone. FW is nice because a dozen players can change the situation drastically. Alliances will change that, a lot.
I don't like the idea at all.
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I think I could accept alliances joining FW if it could be traded with prohibiting super capitals from interfering with warfare in low sec.
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I think I could accept alliances joining FW if it could be traded with prohibiting super capitals from interfering with warfare in low sec.
Why? Is dropping 20 carriers much better?
Regarding the rest of the chronicle, I'm quite confused. Apparently, InterBus is not happy with their COs being shot down, but they do not lower standings when you do. What gives? (We're having a lovely IC discussion on whether shooting InterBus COs is beneficial for the Republic, whether it's piracy, whether set others red for it, whether we do it ourselves ... :-D)
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Regarding player owned custom offices; I have already made my stance clear on the the eve-o forums and I feel the time for discussion has long passed. I am still of the opinion that POCOs is going to turn out as a poor feature, but I will have to wait 3-4 months before giving the final verdict.
I do not like that CCP needs to strongly manipulate the market to make POCOs a viable game mechanic and I am not impressed with their attempt to sugar coat it further with a chronicle.
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I have to disagree with the thought that Alliances in FW will be "bad". Sure it will increase the pressure on those who currently make very good incomes from the relatively poorly utilized facilties etc - but the influx of new players possible will more than make up for the disadvantage in providing genuine dynamism and activity in space. FW has been slowly dying for years now and numbers dropping and it never sat well we me that some good RP alliances were blocked from involvement by a bad choice made from the poor judgement to consider FW a new player (pvp) experience - which it is clearly not limited too.
As to the implications - genuine huge 0.0 powerhouse alliances will probably not be interested due to losing free access to half of empire space and allowing their enemies the option of simply joining the other side for perma free wardecs.
The people who will be interested will be alliances looking for new opportunities outside of 0.0 space and roleplaying alliances who never should have been barred in the first place.
I have to see it as an entirely good thing.
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Sure it will increase the pressure on those who currently make very good incomes from the relatively poorly utilized facilties etc
My worry has nothing to do with income. It's purely about effect. Right now, a 10-20 man corp can have a pretty big impact on any FW side. Alliances will have a huge impact when they join, and it will be much more difficult in the future for smaller corps to have an impact if they don't join one of the alliances.
It's not an on/off switch, and I don't think FW will die because of it, but it'll be a major change in the landscape, and I don't think it'll be for the better.
FW has been slowly dying for years now and numbers dropping
Which numbers are dropping?
Comparing 1st of December numbers for the last years gives me
2009: Minmatar 4352, Amarr 3418
2010: Minmatar 4711, Amarr 3902
2011: Minmatar 5322, Amarr 4541
I'm not sure that's all inactive alts, really.
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Perhaps thats and increase in people just farming loyalty points quietly?
My friends in the FW scene tell me its very quiet and increasingly difficult to get fights and the roleplay / dynamism of the thing seems to have gone.
Part of that I lay at the feet of the way FW from day one was artifically separated from the significant rp alliances.
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84d running average of kills (per day) for the 1st of december:
2009-12-01: Minmatar 127, Amarr 120
2010-12-01: Minmatar 85, Amarr 103
2011-12-01: Minmatar 55, Amarr 60
Looks like it. Hm.
06-01: 86 + 100 / 96 + 124 / 86 + 90
Not all that bad.
04-01: 88 + 105 / 100 + 104 / 108 + 99
Looks pretty stable. Hm. Not sure what to make of that.
I mean, if they allow alliances in, we will join. Not a lot of discussion there. But I don't think it'll be good for FW as a whole. Doesn't mean that FW currently is *healthy* (and no, I don't think that the current "five hour occupancy" is helpful, either %)).
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Maybe be either a part of FW or hold 0.0 sov?
Preferably with some possibilities to do some small-scale development of lowsec space for the empires.
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84d running average of kills (per day) for the 1st of december:
2009-12-01: Minmatar 127, Amarr 120
2010-12-01: Minmatar 85, Amarr 103
2011-12-01: Minmatar 55, Amarr 60
Looks like it. Hm.
06-01: 86 + 100 / 96 + 124 / 86 + 90
Not all that bad.
04-01: 88 + 105 / 100 + 104 / 108 + 99
Looks pretty stable. Hm. Not sure what to make of that.
I mean, if they allow alliances in, we will join. Not a lot of discussion there. But I don't think it'll be good for FW as a whole. Doesn't mean that FW currently is *healthy* (and no, I don't think that the current "five hour occupancy" is helpful, either %)).
Well, I think it will be very good for FW and eve roleplay as a whole to see EM and Ushra'khan CVA and other rp alliances in the fight. And with the numbers and activity on an upward path it'll be even easier to lean on CCP to get the fixes and improvements needed to make FW all it can be.
It is a lot more difficult to interest the developers in improving a niche function that is walled off from a lot of subscribers. (which is what FW barred to Alliances is)
@ Desiderya below ... I could see that FW membership might fairly be said to be a choice between sov and fW perhaps from a balance perspective but it would be pretty harsh on CVA. On balance I'd say no, let the fact that FW membership rules out 50% of hisec to your memberbase to be the main issue. Perhaps look at some standings requirement that meant RP alliances would have an easier time qualifying than typical alliances that run all flavours of agents.
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if an alliance is in FW, it means they can replace their customs offices without having to interact with outside persons.
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Maybe be either a part of FW or hold 0.0 sov?
Preferably with some possibilities to do some small-scale development of lowsec space for the empires.
I think that would be the best solution.
if an alliance is in FW, it means they can replace their customs offices without having to interact with outside persons.
Outside characters really. But I think that is a good thing, they should have to interact with someone outside their alliance.
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@Jade
Harsh is relative. A mechanic can not please everyone, so I don't really see that as a broad issue. The requirement to have some meaningful ways to develop and defend space would be a necessity to make a decision between 0.0 sov and the more open FW easier. Not being able to enter 50% of highsec space is a hinderance but as far as I'm aware meaningful 0.0 sov conflicts aren't decided in highsec.
Needless to say that a lot of things are run by non-alliance alts in highsec anyway.
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I really can't project the effect an alliance would have in FW.
They would certainly be interested in claiming the moons of low-sec, or using the POCO mechanic as passive income...but fighting for occupancy or territory? not sure, unless they have something to gain out of it.
In FW current state, i wouldn't want Alliances to be able to participate.
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PL, goons etc already camp the FW systems with the most action and already own all the moons. If anything, this might focus them against one side instead of anything that moves. Maybe.
Plenty of capital fights and POS bashing on the weekends already too so it won't change much IMO.
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It depends if FW is supposed tobe 'pvp light' or not. If it is then this is a bad idea under current game mechanics.
As was my understanding it was designed to be new player friendly, smaller ships, smaller stakes, and this change would put a quick stop to that.
IF they do some serious tweaking to what is allowed in the FW systems ship-wise then we'll see. Doubtful. A completel cyno-ban and possibly POS removal for all FW systems would make a big difference.
To the comment about having 50% of empire space cut off, it won't effect things in the slightest. Most 00 alliances are self-sufficient in null anyway, and all major trips to empire are done with alts anyway as well.
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Additionally, this seemed like less of a Chronicle and more of a RP-Patch notes :)
I could however see a whole series of adventures for our hapless Interbus employees. That might be funny :)
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What are these RP Alliances people keep talking about?
FW already killed that by forcing those groups out of RP for several years. They have grown and changed a great deal since then. They are not the same entities, and a great majority of their members would now laugh at the prospect.
We will simply see FW become the place that defeated Alliances retreat to when pushed out of nullsec. "Ok, go farm FW missions for a few weeks, then we'll take back what's ours!"
I'm not going to say that's a bad thing, but it's what we will get.
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What are these RP Alliances people keep talking about?
FW already killed that by forcing those groups out of RP for several years. They have grown and changed a great deal since then. They are not the same entities, and a great majority of their members would now laugh at the prospect.
Hey! :-P
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Tell me I'm wrong, man! ;)
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Tell me I'm wrong, man! ;)
You are wrong, man. And this would be blatantly obvious if you spent more than five minutes in our alliance comms. Just ask Yulai Federation about how we take descisions for crazy (from their pov) RP reasons.
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Oh, you're EM.... :| , never mind....
That might be the last one, really.
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Oh, you're EM.... :| , never mind....
That might be the last one, really.
You have seen CVA. Is is really as watered-down as you seem to indicate?
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CVA has good people and pilots scattered throughout.
However, Outside of Defensores Fidei (who are hardcore clergy), I could count the RPers in CVA on one hand.
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CVA has good people and pilots scattered throughout.
However, Outside of Defensores Fidei (who are hardcore clergy), I could count the RPers in CVA on one hand.
And that's a crying shame. But, perhaps, an inevitable result of direct involvement in 0.0 politics.
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Yes, but CCP forced them into that, didn't they? They were literally not allowed to be involved in FW. Now they probably never will.
I can't blame CVA for how they are now.
EVE = Adapt or Die
They adapted.
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well its never too late to correct a mistake like that.
Thats why I support the alliances in FW. Who knows, maybe it will help re-ignite some RP fervour in the game.
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Assuming it's possible, it would be a long process. I'm not just referring to CVA.
Lets hope, eh? 8)